Alcoholics Anonymous

Phil · Phil

If there were no others to share ourselves with, life would be meaningless. --Carlotta Posz We often hear at meetings and from sponsors the saying "There are no accidents." But what does it mean? That wars are necessary? That a suffering parent is God's will? That our disease is our dest...

Phil · Phil

Going through some normal withdrawal stuff? Hang on tight our freind. Another day.

nancyjo59 · nancyjo59

hello, i would come to this site a-lot before deciding it was a great site.. im pretty sure i figured out what was stopping me from staying here i will explain the best i can on this site there is what they call the" threads" threads shows topic(say newcomer asks:) views=10...

Phil · Phil

Four days in? How are you doing?

ellen · ellen

fellig better after venting this afternoon?

Phil · Phil

The Twelve Steps of AA STEP ONE: "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable." STEP TWO: "Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity." STEP THREE: "Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we und...

Phil · Phil

If we truly have unconditional love for someone, do we... criticize how they eat? do we call them fat, and a fat blob that makes them ill? do we criticize how they dress? do we tell them to go to a washroom if they wish to blow their nose in a resturant? do we tell them that their feet are ugly, and t...

Phil · Phil

Train of Life Some folks ride the train of life Looking out the rear, Watching miles of life roll by, And marking every year. They sit in sad remembrance, Of wasted days gone by, And curse their life for what it was, And hang their head and cry. But I don't concern myself with th...

GammyRose · GammyRose

Good Afternoon , I just read your posts about the train and the one with the Serenity Prayer... needed those today.Thanks for the great stuff you post, expecially for the one's of us who need our glasses changed. I also read your post under the daily reflection I posted last night.You read...

Phil · Phil

The Serenity Prayer----------------------------------------------------------------There are two days in every week about which we should not worry...

Phil · Phil

We must not let fears and doubts rule us. We must not hide either from life or within life to avoid our fears and doubts. When we can no longer hide from our fears and doubts, we are left not only with today's fears and doubts, but also yesterday's fears and doubts. The combined weight of our fears and doubt...

ellen · ellen

Been blessed recently, with a chance to finally be who i am. to have that freedom to love and be loved. I have always dreamed of that freedom, drank over the lack there of. I will always remain grateful and most of all to do my very best at remembering what a precious gift...

OldPro · OldPro

Well, it's Monday and all is well here at work. I'm actually having a pretty decent day here, even taking all these "ya who's" I work with into consideration!

I work tomorrow, then my son and I are off to Myrtle Beach, SC for 5 days. We do this annually and I usually look forward t...

nancyjo59 · nancyjo59

nancyjo59 · nancyjo59

hello its seems when i try going to your chat room there is no-one there. wondering if there is a certain time to go there? thanks for any help

nancyjo59

Phil · Phil

I had crossed the line. I was free; but there was no one to welcome me to the land of freedom. I was a stranger in a strange land. --Harriet Tubman Harriet Tubman was a Black woman who devoted her life to helping slaves escape their bondage. In her youth, she had been hit on the head so she suffered dizzy...

Rick · Rick

There was a couple who used to go England to shop in a beautiful antique store. This trip was to celebrate their 25th wedding anniversary. They both liked antiques and pottery, and especially tea-cups. Spotting an exceptional cup, they asked "May we see that?&nbs...

wallsal55 · wallsal55

If you live in town or are in town, do not leave your car unlocked or your windows down! When you come back, there will be zuccinni on your seat!

GammyRose · GammyRose

Well, thank God I'm feeling much better today, it has been a few days of pain. Tonight is birthday night and we always have a dinner, fried chicken tonight, I'm looking forward to the fellowship and the hugs. My husband went to see his probation officer last Fri. , she said next time he will go straight...

Phil · Phil

Owning Our Power Don't you see? We do not have to be so victimized by life, by people, by situations, by work, by our friends, by our love relationships, by our family, by our feelings, our thoughts, our circumstances, and ourselves. We are not victims. We do not have to be victims. That is the whole...

GammyRose · GammyRose

July 26 Every A.A. group ought to be fully self-supporting declining outside contributions. Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions p.160 When I go shopping I look at the prices and if I need what I see, I buy it and pay. Now that I am suppose to be in rehabi...

Cabbageheadchris · Cabbageheadchris

Hi All. I'm having big computer trouble at the moment so if I'm not around, don't worry. Bye for now. Chris. (got to make it quick before it shuts down again).

OldPro · OldPro

START SOMETHING NEW Just because you've never done it, doesn't mean you can't. Though it may be new and different, it is still within your reach. For you can learn, you can adapt, you can improve and then improve some more. Start something new, commit to it, and you might be amazed at how far you can go. Ea...

wallsal55 · wallsal55

Well, guess what I learned? Hubby not only discomboomerated from shift work, as well as my PMS, but he was also consuming those energy drinks to stay awake all night. Loaded with caffeine and sugar. Well...it was as if he were drinking! So....I did say no&nbs...

cheri · cheri

Hi all, I'm back from the dance, returned to the square world, but I carried a bit of the circle home with me. I missed you all more than I could say. Wendy...hope all is well up north with you...many prayers were said for you. I love you, my sister. Nic and Gammy...I love your posts... you give me com...

Phil · Phil

I see you lurking in the shadows. How are things in your zoo today.?:)

Phil · Phil

I get and send mail to some of you guys on the board, and periodically have problems with my sympatico email address--such as this afternoon. Im enclosing my back up mail address which is philipld@hotmail.com Thanks guys-hope everyones having a great day Ok God-Do you know how to change a fuel...

OldPro · OldPro

There are offenses given & offenses not given but taken. —Izaak Walton We bring on a lot of unnecessary suffering by being supersensitive. How often, for example, do we get our feelings hurt by what someone else has said? If this is a regular refrain in our lives, we may need to listen more closely t...

ellen · ellen

glad to see you undersand yank humor--- enjoyed the letter...need the address in DC...lol

Nic · Nic

Just wanted to let you know we notice when you are missing too... Hope everything is ok over there, and that grass is beginning to make you smile again.

Phil · Phil

Jake was dying. His wife, Becky, was maintaining a candlelight vigil >by > > >> his > > >>> side. She held his fragile hand, tears running down her face. Her > > >>> praying > > >>> roused him from his slumber; He looked up and his...

Rick · Rick

 ...

Phil · Phil

He wanted to hold onto his fury, to guard it like a treasure. He would not let it be stolen from him . . .. But already, he felt it slipping, softened by Ben's compassionate touch. --Joe Johnston and Nilo Rodis-Jamero The glassblower is an artist who takes broken glass and melts it in a very hot furnac...

Phil · Phil

We cannot promise the future. The future is not ours to give, but we can, and we must share our hopes and dreams with others. We cannot change the past, our own or anyone else’s. We must learn from the past and not run away from our hurts. We must hurt to grow. Hurting is growing, there is no other way. Beca...

wagon · wagon

did not catch a single fish but the conversations were out of this world

god bless wagon -- Edited by wagon at 16:07, 2005-07-24

Phil · Phil

If Im walking on the beach each morning, and theres this seagull that keeps flying by and crapping on my head. I forgive him. I put on a hat, and try that, but the hat gets messes all over it too, and becomes a very stinky hat. I forgive him. I get another hat, and the same things happen over...

wantneeda · wantneeda

Denial Denial is a powerful tool. Never underestimate its ability to cloud your vision. Be aware that, for many reasons, we have become experts at using this tool to make reality more tolerable. We have learned well how to stop the pain caused by reality - not by changing our circumstances, but by pret...

ellen · ellen

i have had alot of things to think about these past few weeks... well was out of town and literally bumped onto an AA meeting on an Island off the coast of Georgia. Well we went. As we were pulling into the drive i again asked god to dirrect me in his will and went in totally openminded...

John · John

God Said No I asked God to take away my habit. God said, No. It is not for me to take away, but for you to give it up. &nbs...

ellen · ellen

how's it going buddy? just thought that i would check in and see how you are doing this am. just logged on from work and thought well since i am missing a meeting this am i would hook up with the board instead. seems no one is awake yet. have enjoyed the post from all the newcomers&n...

OldPro · OldPro

Hi all. Well, I had a pretty good day. Work was not bad I had 1/2 day today, got a lot accomplished I'd been avoiding. Was able to get myself to a noon BB study, had lunch with a friend and relaxed by the pool for a while. THEN, the sh&# hit the fan. It's my son's weekend w/his dad, he's 14, a...

wallsal55 · wallsal55

OK, my spouse has had 6-7 months sobriety, things were progressing well, now he's on a third shift. He's getting discomboomerated. (sp.) Some of the old ways of thinking have come back and his meetings have stopped while on this job. I am feeling a backward slide, and a litt...

Rick · Rick

"How does The Program work?" newcomers sometimes ask. The two answers I most often hear are "very well" and "slowly." I'm appreciative of both answers, facetious as they may first sound, because my self-analyzing tends to be faulty. Sometimes I've failed to share my defects with...

wantneeda · wantneeda

Language of Letting Go - July 23 Making It Happen Stop trying so hard to make it happen. Stop doing so much, if doing so much is wearing you out or not achieving the desired results. Stop thinking so much and so hard about it. Stop worrying so about it. Stop trying to force, to manipulate, to coerce,...

wantneeda · wantneeda

not sure how this will turn out but i found it a very good read. let me know what you think. hugs, Wendy

OldPro · OldPro

The greatest triumphs often come after the biggest setbacks. The most substantial successes are often preceded by numerous failures. Why does achievement so regularly rise out of disappointment? Because disappointment can be such a powerful teacher. Others could tell you a thousand times what...

Sean · Sean

I am not new to the world of alcoholism--my mother is a sober recovering alcoholic for some twenty years now. Growing up with this disease made me all the more resolute that it would not happen to me, I could handle myself. Well, things happen in life, tragic things, tragic things that we cannot contr...

Phil · Phil

HEALTHY love relationships are not possible without forgiveness! You cannot have a loving and rewarding relationship with anyone else, much less yourself, if you continue to hold on to things that happened in the past. Regardless of the situation, making peace with past love partners, your paren...

Rick · Rick

So let go of the old ways and excuses such as confusion, time wasting, lies, moans, hostilities, denials, resentments, upsets, deviousness, guilt, helplessness, negativity, annoyance, diversions, frustration, fear, hurt, mistrust, pain, resentment, sadness, upsets, battles, arguing, re...

mrs jm guest · mrs jm guest

My daughter is finishing up a short term in-house treatment for meth addiction (and alcohol and pot, too) in Lincoln. Her counselors REALLY want her to remain in Lincoln so that she can attend daily meetings. (She can't drive. In my town there is one meeting a week, so her counselor feels her returning...

Topic		Started By	Replies	Views	Last Post
	Sharing ourselves (Preview) *If there were no others to share ourselves with, life would be meaningless. --Carlotta Posz* We often hear at meetings and from sponsors the saying "There are no accidents." But what does it mean? That wars are necessary? That a suffering parent is God's will? That our disease is our dest...	Phil	0	814	Jul 28, 2005 by Phil
	NancyJO (Preview) Going through some normal withdrawal stuff? Hang on tight our freind. Another day.	Phil	0	592	Jul 28, 2005 by Phil
	main page (Preview) hello, i would come to this site a-lot before deciding it was a great site.. im pretty sure i figured out what was stopping me from staying here i will explain the best i can on this site there is what they call the" threads" threads shows topic(say newcomer asks:) views=10...	nancyjo59	5	641	Jul 28, 2005 by nancyjo59
	Hey Nancyjo? (Preview) Four days in? How are you doing?	Phil	1	702	Jul 28, 2005 by nancyjo59
	phil (Preview) fellig better after venting this afternoon?	ellen	1	738	Jul 27, 2005 by Phil
	The 12 Steps of AA (Preview) The Twelve Steps of AA STEP ONE: "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable." STEP TWO: "Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity." STEP THREE: "Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we und...	Phil	0	704	Jul 27, 2005 by Phil
	Criticism, Put Downs, and Blame. (Preview) If we truly have unconditional love for someone, do we... criticize how they eat? do we call them fat, and a fat blob that makes them ill? do we criticize how they dress? do we tell them to go to a washroom if they wish to blow their nose in a resturant? do we tell them that their feet are ugly, and t...	Phil	4	1007	Jul 27, 2005 by GammyRose
	Drive The Train (Preview) *Train of Life* *Some folks ride the train of life* *Looking out the rear,* *Watching miles of life roll by,* *And marking every year.* *They sit in sad remembrance,* *Of wasted days gone by,* *And curse their life for what it was,* *And hang their head and cry.* *But I don't concern myself with th...*	Phil	3	710	Jul 27, 2005 by Phil
	Hey Phil... (Preview) Good Afternoon , I just read your posts about the train and the one with the Serenity Prayer... needed those today.Thanks for the great stuff you post, expecially for the one's of us who need our glasses changed. I also read your post under the daily reflection I posted last night.You read...	GammyRose	1	693	Jul 27, 2005 by Phil
	Onward we go--just for today-and having faith in tomorrows (Preview) The Serenity Prayer----------------------------------------------------------------There are two days in every week about which we should not worry...	Phil	2	860	Jul 27, 2005 by Phil
	Fears And Doubts (Preview) We must not let fears and doubts rule us. We must not hide either from life or within life to avoid our fears and doubts. When we can no longer hide from our fears and doubts, we are left not only with today's fears and doubts, but also yesterday's fears and doubts. The combined weight of our fears and doubt...	Phil	1	1035	Jul 27, 2005 by ellen
	Gratitude (Preview) Been blessed recently, with a chance to finally be who i am. to have that freedom to love and be loved. I have always dreamed of that freedom, drank over the lack there of. I will always remain grateful and most of all to do my very best at remembering what a precious gift...	ellen	3	790	Jul 27, 2005 by GammyRose
	Just Sharing a bit..... (Preview) Well, it's Monday and all is well here at work. I'm actually having a pretty decent day here, even taking all these "ya who's" I work with into consideration! I work tomorrow, then my son and I are off to Myrtle Beach, SC for 5 days. We do this annually and I usually look forward t...	OldPro	6	683	Jul 27, 2005 by OldPro
	main page (Preview)	nancyjo59	0	767	Jul 27, 2005 by nancyjo59
	chat room (Preview) hello its seems when i try going to your chat room there is no-one there. wondering if there is a certain time to go there? thanks for any help nancyjo59	nancyjo59	6	715	Jul 27, 2005 by cheri
	Todays Gift (Preview) I had crossed the line. I was free; but there was no one to welcome me to the land of freedom. I was a stranger in a strange land. --Harriet Tubman Harriet Tubman was a Black woman who devoted her life to helping slaves escape their bondage. In her youth, she had been hit on the head so she suffered dizzy...	Phil	2	939	Jul 27, 2005 by nancyjo59
	THE TEA CUP (Preview) There was a couple who used to go England to shop in a beautiful antique store. This trip was to celebrate their 25th wedding anniversary. They both liked antiques and pottery, and especially tea-cups. Spotting an exceptional cup, they asked "May we see that?&nbs...	Rick	4	815	Jul 27, 2005 by nancyjo59
	Joke for Today (Preview) If you live in town or are in town, do not leave your car unlocked or your windows down! When you come back, there will be zuccinni on your seat!	wallsal55	5	927	Jul 26, 2005 by OldPro
	Hey everybody... (Preview) Well, thank God I'm feeling much better today, it has been a few days of pain. Tonight is birthday night and we always have a dinner, fried chicken tonight, I'm looking forward to the fellowship and the hugs. My husband went to see his probation officer last Fri. , she said next time he will go straight...	GammyRose	2	724	Jul 26, 2005 by OldPro
	Victims No More (Preview) Owning Our Power Don't you see? We do not have to be so victimized by life, by people, by situations, by work, by our friends, by our love relationships, by our family, by our feelings, our thoughts, our circumstances, and ourselves. We are not victims. We do not have to be victims. That is the whole...	Phil	5	780	Jul 26, 2005 by nancyjo59
	" The Worth Of Sobriety (Preview) July 26 Every A.A. group ought to be fully self-supporting declining outside contributions. Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions p.160 When I go shopping I look at the prices and if I need what I see, I buy it and pay. Now that I am suppose to be in rehabi...	GammyRose	2	1007	Jul 26, 2005 by Phil
	Check in. (Preview) Hi All. I'm having big computer trouble at the moment so if I'm not around, don't worry. Bye for now. Chris. (got to make it quick before it shuts down again).	Cabbageheadchris	1	715	Jul 26, 2005 by Phil
	Start Something New (Preview) START SOMETHING NEW Just because you've never done it, doesn't mean you can't. Though it may be new and different, it is still within your reach. For you can learn, you can adapt, you can improve and then improve some more. Start something new, commit to it, and you might be amazed at how far you can go. Ea...	OldPro	3	682	Jul 26, 2005 by OldPro
	Shiftwork, Phil and all... (Preview) Well, guess what I learned? Hubby not only discomboomerated from shift work, as well as my PMS, but he was also consuming those energy drinks to stay awake all night. Loaded with caffeine and sugar. Well...it was as if he were drinking! So....I did say no&nbs...	wallsal55	2	911	Jul 25, 2005 by Nic
	Good Morning my friends... (Preview) Hi all, I'm back from the dance, returned to the square world, but I carried a bit of the circle home with me. I missed you all more than I could say. Wendy...hope all is well up north with you...many prayers were said for you. I love you, my sister. Nic and Gammy...I love your posts... you give me com...	cheri	3	806	Jul 25, 2005 by Nic
	Hello Ellen (Preview) I see you lurking in the shadows. How are things in your zoo today.?:)	Phil	3	920	Jul 25, 2005 by Phil
	Email Stuff (Preview) I get and send mail to some of you guys on the board, and periodically have problems with my sympatico email address--such as this afternoon. Im enclosing my back up mail address which is philipld@hotmail.com Thanks guys-hope everyones having a great day Ok God-Do you know how to change a fuel...	Phil	2	830	Jul 25, 2005 by Phil
	Super Sensitive (Preview) There are offenses given & offenses not given but taken. —Izaak Walton We bring on a lot of unnecessary suffering by being supersensitive. How often, for example, do we get our feelings hurt by what someone else has said? If this is a regular refrain in our lives, we may need to listen more closely t...	OldPro	0	848	Jul 25, 2005 by OldPro
	nic (Preview) glad to see you undersand yank humor--- enjoyed the letter...need the address in DC...lol	ellen	2	617	Jul 25, 2005 by cheri
	Gammy - Whatcha doin' ? (Preview) Just wanted to let you know we notice when you are missing too... Hope everything is ok over there, and that grass is beginning to make you smile again.	Nic	1	742	Jul 25, 2005 by GammyRose
	On The Lighter Side :) (Preview) Jake was dying. His wife, Becky, was maintaining a candlelight vigil >by > > >> his > > >>> side. She held his fragile hand, tears running down her face. Her > > >>> praying > > >>> roused him from his slumber; He looked up and his...	Phil	2	840	Jul 25, 2005 by Nic
	God's Boxes (Preview)  ...	Rick	1	649	Jul 25, 2005 by Phil
	Todays Gift (Preview) He wanted to hold onto his fury, to guard it like a treasure. He would not let it be stolen from him . . .. But already, he felt it slipping, softened by Ben's compassionate touch. --Joe Johnston and Nilo Rodis-Jamero The glassblower is an artist who takes broken glass and melts it in a very hot furnac...	Phil	0	642	Jul 25, 2005 by Phil
	Sharing (Preview) We cannot promise the future. The future is not ours to give, but we can, and we must share our hopes and dreams with others. We cannot change the past, our own or anyone else’s. We must learn from the past and not run away from our hurts. We must hurt to grow. Hurting is growing, there is no other way. Beca...	Phil	1	746	Jul 25, 2005 by Rick
	fishin with son (Preview) did not catch a single fish but the conversations were out of this world god bless wagon -- Edited by wagon at 16:07, 2005-07-24	wagon	2	764	Jul 25, 2005 by Rick
	ok Nic-wele try a different approach:) (Preview) If Im walking on the beach each morning, and theres this seagull that keeps flying by and crapping on my head. I forgive him. I put on a hat, and try that, but the hat gets messes all over it too, and becomes a very stinky hat. I forgive him. I get another hat, and the same things happen over...	Phil	3	850	Jul 24, 2005 by Nic
	language of letting go-july 24 (Preview) Denial Denial is a powerful tool. Never underestimate its ability to cloud your vision. Be aware that, for many reasons, we have become experts at using this tool to make reality more tolerable. We have learned well how to stop the pain caused by reality - not by changing our circumstances, but by pret...	wantneeda	2	969	Jul 24, 2005 by Phil
	another sign (Preview) i have had alot of things to think about these past few weeks... well was out of town and literally bumped onto an AA meeting on an Island off the coast of Georgia. Well we went. As we were pulling into the drive i again asked god to dirrect me in his will and went in totally openminded...	ellen	5	763	Jul 24, 2005 by Nic
	NO (Preview) God Said No I asked God to take away my habit. God said, No. It is not for me to take away, but for you to give it up. &nbs...	John	1	807	Jul 24, 2005 by OldPro
	phil: (Preview) how's it going buddy? just thought that i would check in and see how you are doing this am. just logged on from work and thought well since i am missing a meeting this am i would hook up with the board instead. seems no one is awake yet. have enjoyed the post from all the newcomers&n...	ellen	2	655	Jul 24, 2005 by ellen
	My son (Preview) Hi all. Well, I had a pretty good day. Work was not bad I had 1/2 day today, got a lot accomplished I'd been avoiding. Was able to get myself to a noon BB study, had lunch with a friend and relaxed by the pool for a while. THEN, the sh&# hit the fan. It's my son's weekend w/his dad, he's 14, a...	OldPro	5	1116	Jul 24, 2005 by OldPro
	Shift work and Recovery Question (Preview) OK, my spouse has had 6-7 months sobriety, things were progressing well, now he's on a third shift. He's getting discomboomerated. (sp.) Some of the old ways of thinking have come back and his meetings have stopped while on this job. I am feeling a backward slide, and a litt...	wallsal55	1	888	Jul 23, 2005 by Phil
	Reflection for the Day (Preview) "How does The Program work?" newcomers sometimes ask. The two answers I most often hear are "very well" and "slowly." I'm appreciative of both answers, facetious as they may first sound, because my self-analyzing tends to be faulty. Sometimes I've failed to share my defects with...	Rick	0	836	Jul 23, 2005 by Rick
	language of letting go-july 23 (Preview) Language of Letting Go - July 23 Making It Happen Stop trying so hard to make it happen. Stop doing so much, if doing so much is wearing you out or not achieving the desired results. Stop thinking so much and so hard about it. Stop worrying so about it. Stop trying to force, to manipulate, to coerce,...	wantneeda	0	659	Jul 23, 2005 by wantneeda
	Forgiveness-the missing step (Preview) not sure how this will turn out but i found it a very good read. let me know what you think. hugs, Wendy	wantneeda	0	950	Jul 23, 2005 by wantneeda
	Always Making Progress (Preview) The greatest triumphs often come after the biggest setbacks. The most substantial successes are often preceded by numerous failures. Why does achievement so regularly rise out of disappointment? Because disappointment can be such a powerful teacher. Others could tell you a thousand times what...	OldPro	4	941	Jul 23, 2005 by wantneeda
	My story... (Preview) I am not new to the world of alcoholism--my mother is a sober recovering alcoholic for some twenty years now. Growing up with this disease made me all the more resolute that it would not happen to me, I could handle myself. Well, things happen in life, tragic things, tragic things that we cannot contr...	Sean	3	1002	Jul 23, 2005 by wantneeda
	Forgiving (Preview) HEALTHY love relationships are not possible without forgiveness! You cannot have a loving and rewarding relationship with anyone else, much less yourself, if you continue to hold on to things that happened in the past. Regardless of the situation, making peace with past love partners, your paren...	Phil	0	857	Jul 22, 2005 by Phil
	So let go of the old ways and excuses (Preview) So let go of the old ways and excuses such as confusion, time wasting, lies, moans, hostilities, denials, resentments, upsets, deviousness, guilt, helplessness, negativity, annoyance, diversions, frustration, fear, hurt, mistrust, pain, resentment, sadness, upsets, battles, arguing, re...	Rick	1	1077	Jul 22, 2005 by Rick
	Lincoln, Nebraska (Preview) My daughter is finishing up a short term in-house treatment for meth addiction (and alcohol and pot, too) in Lincoln. Her counselors REALLY want her to remain in Lincoln so that she can attend daily meetings. (She can't drive. In my town there is one meeting a week, so her counselor feels her returning...	mrs jm guest	2	1048	Jul 22, 2005 by Dave Harm
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