I don't know how to deal with this. I've been sober about 1 1/2 months. I finally "had enuff" and joined AA, my drinking had been causing problems in my life and in my marriage for several years. I feel good about my recovery, I feel much better about myself overall. When I had enuff after my last drunk, I had not started any verbal fights at home the night before (surprise), but I had that moment of clarity, called the hotline, and went to a meeting at lunch. I listened, I cried, I took my white chip and joined. I came home and told my wife "I had way too much to drink (again) last night, I went to an AA meeting today". We discussed this, she was of course happy, and asked what my plans were - "well, I'm not going to drink today, and I'm going to the meeting again tomorrow." I've managed to keep that same plan each day for about 41 days now. The problem - she told her best friend I think that day that I had joined AA. She evidently told several other people. I asked her to NOT tell anyone, that this was my thing, not hers - "But telling people makes the commitment firmer for you". No, that's MY choice, not yours. I'm not quitting for you, I'm quitting for me. Then it gets to "Is it OK if I tell so and so?" An old mutual friend comes by one night, wife is an hour late getting home, he says "So I hear you joined the Automobile Association?"
SHe has gone out of state to visit her Dad, they are in the car together when she calls me this afternoon, and asks "Are you going to a meeting today?" i.e, she told her Dad, who is a pretty heavy drinker.
I am not ashamed of AA, I am grateful to it for helping me, I just think that some people (and I've heard this in meetings from AA's who thought this themselves at one point) think AA is for the homeless guy in the gutter, that you have to be in really bad shape to go to AA. There are all sorts of people in my home group, all colors, all income levels, all levels of hitting bottom. But we are all alike in the important thing, we all want to help each other to stay sober. And I think she should respect my anonymity. I'm really sick of her telling people. She gets back early next week, I'd like to have a solution other than: A. Screaming at her. B. Telling her F.U., I'm not going anymore, that way you can shut your pie hole, I believe I'll go have a drink now. (not that I would, I just don't know how to make the point. )
First off, anonymity is your choice, but consider what it says in the Big Book.
At the level of press, radio and films (I hear they added and the Internet recently).
The idea behind anonymity in AA is to protect AA. Can't have someone going to the Press and saying, "I'm sober now because I joined AA". Two week later he has a relapse, and dies drunk, in a car accident.
The headline of the local paper:
AA Doesn't Work
Can you just imagine what would happen?
Or you want to phone a buddy in AA but you forgot his number:
"Hello directory assistance, can I have the number of Bruce M. please?"
Now about your wife, yes, in principle I agree with you. She should respect your wishes. BUT! And this is a biggie here.
Look at it from her side. How has drinking affected your relationship with your wife. Fights? Broken promises? Missed birthdays? Missed dinners? I'm sure if you think about it you can come up with a long list of things that could potentially destroy a marriage. But she's still there isn't she, supporting you.
I see your wife as bursting with pride that you've joined AA (the Automobile Association, I like that one). She sees HOPE for you, for her, for you both. She's seeing a future with you, a much brighter, happier future.
Trust me, as an ex-drunk, everyone at work knows you are one, your friends all know, everyone in your family knows, your neighbours know. The man at the corner store knows.
I remember when I was a couple of months into AA. Everyone at work was wondering what the heck has happened to Bruce, nobody knew I had joined AA, it was my deep dark secret. How embarrassing if they found out.
One day the Administration Officer called me into his office just before work started (Military) and told me to close the door.
"Damn! What did I do now?" Panic set in.
"Bruce what have you been doing lately? You're different!"
So I told him my deep dark secret!
"WHAT! THAT'S GREAT!", he shouted, and in a normal voice, "Congratulations, I'm really happy for you. Now would you please go and tell the ladies in the office, they are all concerned about you, they know something happened, but they don't know what. Share the good news will you, they all know you're an alcoholic anyway!"
When I stepped out of the office they were all looking at me, as if to say: WELL! They had heard the first three words, who hadn't, so I told them. Trust me, it was 100% positive.
My advice is simple, if you love your wife, when she gets home give her a BIG hug, and tell her; "Honey, as long as you don't break my anonymity at the level of press, radio, films and the Internet (ie: publishing it in a Webpage) you can tell anybody you want, because I'm happy to be sober, and I want my family and friends to know it."
But then again, that's just MY opinion. And before you discard this ask yourself: "Self, are we proud of being sober?"
Bruce
EDIT: Oh and by the way, AA is there for anyone who has a "desire" to stop drinking. Doesn't even say "you have to stop", just the desire to stop.
-- Edited by matay at 16:46, 2008-01-19
-- Edited by matay at 16:47, 2008-01-19
__________________
Until I know what I'm doing, I'll ask questions from someone who has what I want. If I don't like the answer, it's probably the one I need!
First off, anonymity is your choice, but consider what it says in the Big Book.
At the level of press, radio and films (I hear they added and the Internet recently).
The idea behind anonymity in AA is to protect AA. Can't have someone going to the Press and saying, "I'm sober now because I joined AA". Two week later he has a relapse, and dies drunk, in a car accident.
The headline of the local paper:
AA Doesn't Work
Can you just imagine what would happen?
Or you want to phone a buddy in AA but you forgot his number:
"Hello directory assistance, can I have the number of Bruce M. please?"
Now about your wife, yes, in principle I agree with you. She should respect your wishes. BUT! And this is a biggie here.
Look at it from her side. How has drinking affected your relationship with your wife. Fights? Broken promises? Missed birthdays? Missed dinners? I'm sure if you think about it you can come up with a long list of things that could potentially destroy a marriage. But she's still there isn't she, supporting you.
I see your wife as bursting with pride that you've joined AA (the Automobile Association, I like that one). She sees HOPE for you, for her, for you both. She's seeing a future with you, a much brighter, happier future.
Trust me, as an ex-drunk, everyone at work knows you are one, your friends all know, everyone in your family knows, your neighbours know. The man at the corner store knows.
I remember when I was a couple of months into AA. Everyone at work was wondering what the heck has happened to Bruce, nobody knew I had joined AA, it was my deep dark secret. How embarrassing if they found out.
One day the Administration Officer called me into his office just before work started (Military) and told me to close the door.
"Damn! What did I do now?" Panic set in.
"Bruce what have you been doing lately? You're different!"
So I told him my deep dark secret!
"WHAT! THAT'S GREAT!", he shouted, and in a normal voice, "Congratulations, I'm really happy for you. Now would you please go and tell the ladies in the office, they are all concerned about you, they know something happened, but they don't know what. Share the good news will you, they all know you're an alcoholic anyway!"
When I stepped out of the office they were all looking at me, as if to say: WELL! They had heard the first three words, who hadn't, so I told them. Trust me, it was 100% positive.
My advice is simple, if you love your wife, when she gets home give her a BIG hug, and tell her; "Honey, as long as you don't break my anonymity at the level of press, radio, films and the Internet (ie: publishing it in a Webpage) you can tell anybody you want, because I'm happy to be sober, and I want my family and friends to know it."
But then again, that's just MY opinion. And before you discard this ask yourself: "Self, are we proud of being sober?"
Bruce
EDIT: Oh and by the way, AA is there for anyone who has a "desire" to stop drinking. Doesn't even say "you have to stop", just the desire to stop.
-- Edited by matay at 16:46, 2008-01-19
-- Edited by matay at 16:47, 2008-01-19
I agree to an extent with you Bruce. But I also see and understand what rudd is feeling. I have a job that requires me to go out and sell a product. If a potential buyer is aware that I am alcoholic and is ignorant to AA and its purpose this may in fact damage my credibility. Service is a key ingredient to the product I pedal. If the customer thinks he can't depend on me to provide quality service he may decide to go with brand X instead.
My wife was and still is excited that I have changed. At first she too went out and told people of my involvement with an AA group. And I was proud that she was proud. But I had to have sit down heart to heart discussion with her
about the importance of anonynmity. I suggested she attend some Alonon meetings which she did. They described in ways I could not to my wife what we deal with. I suggest to rudd to do the same with his wife. Alonon is just as important as to the spouses of alcoholics as AA is to the alcoholics.
"Self, are we proud of being sober?" I am happy about being sober. I am pleased I have remained sober. Hell, I'm damned near estatic. I try to avoid "proud". I try to remember "humility". My HP has been giving me some pretty direct lessons in humility lately. I know I am only one drink away from where I was, and one drink was always pretty short work in my hands, I could usually get down 10 in an hour.
I am not discarding what you say, I agree with alot of it.
"I see your wife as bursting with pride that you've joined AA (the Automobile Association, I like that one). She sees HOPE for you, for her, for you both. She's seeing a future with you, a much brighter, happier future."
Maybe not pride, maybe relief and happiness. She says it's like being married to a different man.
"Trust me, as an ex-drunk, everyone at work knows you are one, your friends all know, everyone in your family knows, your neighbours know. The man at the corner store knows."
Well, I didn't mind telling my sister, she's got 10 years or so sober, with one slip that I know of. I'm afraid the guy at the liquor store must think I've died or left town. :) Work - boss figured out something was going on, he knows I have a brain again. He's happy, and I'm slowly regaining the responsibilities I used to have.
I think my objections don't stem from the "at the level of press, radio, and films" injunction - where, by the way, it says WE should maintain anonymity. That's just it, WE. Those of us in AA.
We've also got mutual friends and people we know from the bar I frequented and my wife bartended at for a while that I see in the rooms. I do not tell her "I saw so and so at the meeting" or, you remember so and so, they were doing coke in the bathroom he tells me." I don't
And back to her best friend, I think the woman is well down the road towards the disease. My own personal assessment shared here and no where else. I think active drunks really don't know what to think of AA's. I also know that in this town, we don't have six degrees of separation, maybe 2 1/2.
When I first joined, an old timer told me - "Don't run around telling people your in AA. Just let people see the change."
"The idea behind anonymity in AA is to protect AA. Can't have someone going to the Press and saying, "I'm sober now because I joined AA". Two week later he has a relapse, and dies drunk, in a car accident.
The headline of the local paper:
AA Doesn't Work
Can you just imagine what would happen?"
Bruce, thanks, I think you have just inadvertently given me what I need to say. "Wife, please do not tell any more people I've joined AA. If I were to slip, it would damage AA's reputation, and some of your (fomerly our) heavy drinking friends might not look to it as a solution if they decide they have a problem. Also, right or wrong, it is affecting my serenity, which is paramount to my recovery."
And Lee has a good point, I also am in a position where I provide professional services to clients. With our 2 1/2 degrees of separation in this town, that's all I need, a client going to my boss and saying, well, we heard Rudd's an alcoholic, we'll go to another firm. It would not matter if I had 20 years sober, I am still (or I will still be) an alcoholic.
Alright, gotta run and go get some bad coffee (go to a meeting)
Oh I understand rudd's feelings totally, been there done that sort of thing. If you notice I mentioned "family and friends" a lot.
Your suggestion of ALANON is a "perfect" suggestion, not only for the anonymity issue but because of all the other issues that she and rudd haven't come up against yet. Wish I had thought of it at the time, only goes to show that two heads are better that one.
While you certainly have a point about potential buyers, how would you respond to a potential buyer that asked you to meet over a drink?
1. No thanks, I don't drink. or 2. No thanks I'm a recovered (recovering) alcoholic?
Notice there is no mention of AA there, and 99% of the people would respect the honesty of the second answer. Some may even ask, "AA?" In this day and age most employers know about AA, and more likely then not, some of them are members. Being a recovered-alcoholic is not a disadvantage as my 22 years of sobriety have shown me.
No need for an answer, just a thought for you.
At any rate I think I can safely say that we both would agree that rudd's two options are disastrous if he wants to continue his relationship with his wife..
Again, just my opinion.
__________________
Until I know what I'm doing, I'll ask questions from someone who has what I want. If I don't like the answer, it's probably the one I need!
Hi mate just keep going to aa and you want mind who know soon you will tell any-one and every-one that your sober and that you got sober with aa goodluck my friend keep comming back. Linda xxxxxx
Hi rudd, (right now I'm drinking a coffee with you)
{quote} I am happy about being sober. I am pleased I have remained sober. Hell, I'm damned near estatic. I try to avoid "proud". I try to remember "humility". My HP has been giving me some pretty direct lessons in humility lately. I know I am only one drink away from where I was, and one drink was always pretty short work in my hands, I could usually get down 10 in an hour. {unquote}
proud adj 1: feeling self-respect or pleasure in something by which you measure your self-worth
It's not a bad thing, if looked at in the right light. Like the underlined part. For example, I'm proud of you for posting here before acting.
{quote}"Hell, I'm damned near estatic"{unquote} Yea, I remember that feeling too. Feels good all the way down to the gut level doesn't it! {quote} I am not discarding what you say, I agree with alot of it.
Maybe not pride, maybe relief and happiness. She says it's like being married to a different man." {unquote} Well, you know her a lot better then I do, which stands to reason. And I guess I could agree with you, or her, on this point.
{quote} Well, I didn't mind telling my sister, she's got 10 years or so sober, with one slip that I know of. I'm afraid the guy at the liquor store must think I've died or left town. :) {unquote} You should stop in some day and say something like: "Hi, just wanted you to know I'm not dead, just took my business across the street to "Starbucks"
Don't be surprised if he comes back with a, "Yea, I know!"
{quote} Work - boss figured out something was going on, he knows I have a brain again. He's happy, and I'm slowly regaining the responsibilities I used to have. {unquote} My advice: Tell him! And ask him never to put you in a position where you might be around booze. I say this because I don't know if you work in a place that might require you to have business lunch meetings or evening meetings in a semi-casual atmosphere. But then again, you know the situation better than I do.
{quote} We've also got mutual friends and people we know from the bar I frequented and my wife bartended at for a while that I see in the rooms. I do not tell her "I saw so and so at the meeting" or, you remember so and so, they were doing coke in the bathroom he tells me." I don't {unquote} Now that is a good respect for anonimity the way it should be.
At the "Plug-In-The-Jug" group part of their opening preamble was: What you hear here, who you see here, stayes here in this room.
{quote} I think active drunks really don't know what to think of AA's. I also know that in this town, we don't have six degrees of separation, maybe 2 1/2. {unquote} When I was actively drinking I sure didn't want anyone telling me about AA, and heaven help them if they had suggested I needed it. Oh I was bad to the core!
{quote} When I first joined, an old timer told me - "Don't run around telling people your in AA. Just let people see the change." {quote}
I have to admit I can see the wisdom in that. Can I add though, if anyone asks, don't lie about it. Assess the situation and decide: "I've stopped drinking" or "I've joined AA" Either way, it's the truth.
The headline of the local paper: AA Doesn't Work
{quote} Bruce, thanks, I think you have just inadvertently given me what I need to say. "Wife, please do not tell any more people I've joined AA. If I were to slip, it would damage AA's reputation, and some of your (fomerly our) heavy drinking friends might not look to it as a solution if they decide they have a problem. Also, right or wrong, it is affecting my serenity, which is paramount to my recovery." {unquote}
Very well said, go for it! (Damn, I'm changing my opinion here. ) Take Lee's advice too and suggest that she consider going to ALANON. Above all be gentle and calm.
{quote} And Lee has a good point, I also am in a position where I provide professional services to clients. With our 2 1/2 degrees of separation in this town, that's all I need, a client going to my boss and saying, well, we heard Rudd's an alcoholic, we'll go to another firm. It would not matter if I had 20 years sober, I am still (or I will still be) an alcoholic. {quote}
I wonder how many of those clients already know you're an alcoholic. But wrongly thinking active alcoholic?
Alright, gotta run and go get some bad coffee (go to a meeting)
Have a good one. Personally you've helped me have a GREAT day. Hope yours is as good. Bruce
__________________
Until I know what I'm doing, I'll ask questions from someone who has what I want. If I don't like the answer, it's probably the one I need!
I'd just like to say that in the last 21+ years that I have been around AA, I haven't had a single adverse reaction from an employer, or anyone that I can think of, in being an open book about me being a recovering alcoholic and attending AA.
Granted, I did NOT shout it from the rooftops when I first got sober. I still had a LOT of shame and guilt that I needed to work through.
I suspect I have done some indirect 12th step work just by talking to folks who have asked questions about recovery and AA in my jobs in the past.
Today I am proud to be an alcoholic, an alcoholic in recovery. I had to go through everything I went through to get to where I am today :)
__________________
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguements and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
~Herbert Spencer
Welcome to MIP and congratulations on 41 days sober! That's great. Just keep going one day at a time.
As I was waiting to be picked up for my first meeting a woman that I know passed by and asked me where I was going. I decided to be honest with her as I was so sick of the lies. But, that was my decision. Over the last two years I have chosen who I told and when I told them. It was my personal decision. But, we are all different.
Perhaps you could tell your wife that you feel uncomfortable with her telling people and that it is also putting extra pressure on you that you just don't need right now. But, maybe your wife is so proud of you facing things that she wants to everyone to know how proud she is of you. After all, your drinking, and now your sobriety, have affected her.
I would suggest sitting down with her and explaining just how you feel. She can't know unless you tell her.
Please keep posting and letting us know how it goes for you, won't you?
Take care,
Carol
__________________
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. ~Dr. Seuss
Oh I understand rudd's feelings totally, been there done that sort of thing. If you notice I mentioned "family and friends" a lot.
Your suggestion of ALANON is a "perfect" suggestion, not only for the anonymity issue but because of all the other issues that she and rudd haven't come up against yet. Wish I had thought of it at the time, only goes to show that two heads are better that one.
While you certainly have a point about potential buyers, how would you respond to a potential buyer that asked you to meet over a drink?
1. No thanks, I don't drink. or 2. No thanks I'm a recovered (recovering) alcoholic?
Notice there is no mention of AA there, and 99% of the people would respect the honesty of the second answer. Some may even ask, "AA?" In this day and age most employers know about AA, and more likely then not, some of them are members. Being a recovered-alcoholic is not a disadvantage as my 22 years of sobriety have shown me.
No need for an answer, just a thought for you.
At any rate I think I can safely say that we both would agree that rudd's two options are disastrous if he wants to continue his relationship with his wife..
Again, just my opinion.
Yes I see and have allready had to deal with that sort of thing. Using your first answer is how I choose to handle those situations. Most casual drinkers understand if you tell them you do not have a taste for alcohol. To each his on may cross thier minds.
The second answer scares me a little. I know I will have address this though because of my existing customers whom I have shared a drink of two at the ole golf cource. I think most will be understanding and like it has been writen in the Big Book may have known I had a problem all along. Whatever. It's just a little scary.
Suggest Alanon to her. We will be waiting. Sometimes we Alanoners have no clue about our role in the disease. It is convenience for us to keep the focus on YOU when we should be focusing on ourselves.
This may be neither here nor there but I heard in a meeting someone sharing "I only hurt myself, until I thought about my mother...." "Not only did I hurt her by not coming home at all or coming home wasted, I hurt her friends that she called in desperation, not knowing what to do about me or wondering where I was"
Surely your wife has shared with her friends the many times you've not come home or made a poor choice. She is probably proud to share with them that your trying to change your ways. I too hate anyone at this point to know my business...but believe me, they already knew and are happy to see a change!
Share your feelings with her but also expect that she is only doing it because life is gonna be so much better for both of you! Lani
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"We tend to forget that happiness doesn't come as a result of getting something we don't have, but rather of recognizing and appreciating what we do have. "
1. No thanks, I don't drink. or 2. No thanks I'm a recovered (recovering) alcoholic?
Yes I see and have allready had to deal with that sort of thing. Using your first answer is how I choose to handle those situations. Most casual drinkers understand if you tell them you do not have a taste for alcohol. To each his on may cross thier minds.
The second answer scares me a little. I know I will have address this though because of my existing customers whom I have shared a drink of two at the ole golf cource. I think most will be understanding and like it has been writen in the Big Book may have known I had a problem all along. Whatever. It's just a little scary.
Lee.
Yes, I have dealt with this many times over during the years, Lee.
I used "No thanks, I don't drink." many times, because I was not comfortable in my own skin in my early days of AA. I was ashamed to admit I was an alcoholic, AA was my secret!
Then I heard Father Pete Waters speak and he intoduced himself as:
"Hi I'm Pete Wathers and I'm a recovered Alcoholic."
Instantly I had a resentment against him, thinking "How can he be recovered, I've been told I'll always be an alcoholic!"
And he continued, "Why do I say I'm recovered, simple it says so in the Big Book, go look for yourself, it's in "Foreward to First Edition"
"We of Alcoholics Anonymous are more than one hundred men and women who have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body."
From that point on I lost the resentment, and listened intently, I wanted what he had! I wanted to loose this "hopeless state of mind and body"
From that point on I started using, "No Thanks, I'm a recovering alcoholic.", and each time I did I felt an inner peace for a while, until somewhere around seven or eight years in AA when I changed recovering to recovered.
Your time will come, Lee, and when it does, you to will feel a little inner peace with it.
Bruce
Edits were due to colour changed I didn't want to make. -- Edited by matay at 10:02, 2008-01-23
-- Edited by matay at 10:03, 2008-01-23
-- Edited by matay at 10:05, 2008-01-23
-- Edited by matay at 10:08, 2008-01-23
__________________
Until I know what I'm doing, I'll ask questions from someone who has what I want. If I don't like the answer, it's probably the one I need!
Suggest Alanon to her. We will be waiting. Sometimes we Alanoners have no clue about our role in the disease. It is convenience for us to keep the focus on YOU when we should be focusing on ourselves.
In support, Nancy
Hey Rudd, solid advice here^^^^^^^. Sorry I'm late to this discussion (out of town skiing). Congrats on 45 days, you're the man. One of the other posters suggested some compassion on your part toward your wife and I'll second that.
But She is also sick from having to live, cope, put up with, support, care for, a practising alcoholic. It is a controlling thing that she is doing by breaking your anonymity, and it is wrong but don't let it be an excuse for your disease to talk you out of your recovery. We must put our sobriety first ("our primary purpose is to stay sober...") it even comes before maintaning a marriage.
Tell her if she is so interested in supporting you in your recovery then she should attend alanon. And if she's not interested in that, then she should leave your recovery to you and but out (which she should do anyway and will hear the first night she attends a alanon meeting).
I too began my AA journey while in a marriage with a child in our household. I tried to stay sober and in that marriage for 2 years and it was dificult. My x actually felt it necessary to tell my father that I had used drugs (what a hypocrite she was). That's the kind of thing that alanons do.
My sobriety survived but the marriage did not. I have no regrets, and was able to have a great relationship with my son as a single parent and later he moved in with me and my second and current wife. Not saying that you need to leave, just saying don't worry about it, it is what is and more shall be revealed. Your sobriety is the most important thing, do let go of that for anything.
Hey, Rudd :) Well doings in your recovery 1Day@aTime dear! Just a little word of caution before you run off & blow your anonymity at work.. Attending AA is your own choice & your own business. I treasure my anonymity as it is only those I share recovery with who have to know or understand how difficult I can find it to function in the real world without a drink. I'm getting better at this as time passes & I'm sure you're finding this too. You don't have to share your private life with anyone if you don't want to & sometimes, especially in the professional world, we just want to be given credit for our merits not to be looked upon with any pity or misunderstanding in the employment arena. Although you are helped, your recovery is your own achievement & doesn't have to be smiled upon by those who employ us anyway. As long as you're delivering the goods why should they have to know? Once you've told people at work you do risk the stigma, however misplaced, that that can bring. Think carefully if you want to mention it but to be honest it may not be relevent. You're doing well so why should anybody at work have to question it? There have been times in early recovery when I found it so tough & wanted to tell my employers but my Sponsor gave all this to me to think about & asked me to check my motives.. Was I expecting a sympathy vote or some kind of special treatment & to what cost? I didn't want this so chose not to disclose. I don't know if it would have made any difference but my head was all over the show & as it turned out that job wasn't right for me at that time anyway so I got to leave with my dignity & anonymity intact. I don't know how it would have been if I'd have told them but once you have you have & now, well I'm glad I'm in A.A. but I don't have to run around telling everyone because it's a bridge to normal living & it's not the total sum of my parts. There's plenty of other things I've discovered I'm interested in & can talk about now so I don't have to rely so heavy on my A.A. life. It's up to you. You will know what's best for you. I thought I'd share this to help you with some balance. Sometimes it can be the worst thing you could have done but then there's no taking it back! I think you're doing great & I'm glad your wife is pleased too. Your recovery is your own & after a while, even if she tells everybody that you both know, the fuss will die down & everyone will be getting on with their own lives. After all, we're not that important, right? God bless you, Rudd. I'm glad you're here & sharing your recovery with us too. I hope you're in for the long~haul 1Day@aTime. The main thing is that you both seem happy & I'm happy for you too. Good luck for today, Danielle x
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Progress not perfection.. & Practice makes Progress!
