Feeling angry - and, sometimes, the act of blaming - is a natural and necessary part of accepting loss and change - of grieving. We can allow ourselves and others to become angry as we move from denial toward acceptance.
As we come to terms with loss and change, we may blame our higher Power, others, or ourselves. The person may be connected to the loss, or he or she may be an innocent bystander. We may hear ourselves say: "If only he would have done that... If I wouldn't have done that... Why didn't God do it differently?"... We know that blame doesn't help. In recovery, the watchwords are self-responsibility and personal accountability, not blame. Ultimately, surrender and self-responsibility are the only concepts that can move us forward, but to get there we may need to allow ourselves to feel angry and to occasionally indulge in some blaming.
It is helpful, in dealing with others, to remember that they, too, may need to go through their angry stage to achieve acceptance. To not allow others, or ourselves, to go through anger and blame may slow down the grief process.
Trust the grief process and ourselves. We won't stay angry forever. But we may need to get mad for a while as we search over what could have been, to finally accept what is.
God, help me learn to accept my own and others' anger as a normal part of achieving acceptance and peace. Within that framework, help me strive for personal accountability.
From The Language of Letting Go
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Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. ~Dr. Seuss
"God, help me learn to accept my own and others' anger as a normal part of achieving acceptance and peace. Within that framework, help me strive for personal accountability."
ah.....I don't think so. Here's an excerpt from the 12 & 12 Step 10.
"It is a spiritual axiom that every time we are disturbed, no matter what the cause, there is something wrong with us. If somebody hurts us and we are sore, we are in the wrong also. But are there no exceptions to this rule? What about "justifiable" anger? If somebody cheats us, aren't we entitled to be mad? Can't we be properly angry with self-righteous folk? For us of A.A. these are dangerous exceptions. We have found that justified anger ought to be left to those better qualified to handle it. Few people have been more victimized by resentments than have we alcoholics. It mattered little whether our resentments were justified or not. A burst of temper could spoil a day, and a well-nursed grudge could make us miserably ineffective. Nor were we ever skillful in separating justified from unjustified anger. As we saw it, our wrath was always justified. Anger, that occasional luxury of more balanced people, could keep us on an emotional jag indefinitely. These emotional "dry benders" often led straight to the bottle. Other kinds of disturbances--jealousy, envy, self-pity, or hurt pride--did the same thing."
Step 10 is intrumental in my daily sobriety. Today I find it easier to put fault on myself rather than others. I have a little control over myself, but absolutely none over others. I choose to try to better myself, where I have the possibility to be successful, instead of trying to "fix" someone else, where I have no chance at all.
Welcome to MIP, Brian. Well done in working your program. I hope you share your ES&H with us. Nice to have you here. I hope it adds to your sobriety too. Danielle :)
Hey, Dean :) I don't think there's any contradiction there. I'll thank Q for her post & thankyou for your reminder of Step10. In the name of spiritual progress. I'll never be perfect! I don't even need to be these days with a little humility, Danielle ;)
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Progress not perfection.. & Practice makes Progress!
Welcome Brian, and thanks for your post, great first post. We really need a few more posters in here to keep the conversation going.
Sobrietyspell, thanks for reminding me to have a little humility, someone's got to do it. There is a direct contradiction in this passage- "Feeling angry - and, sometimes, the act of blaming - is a natural and necessary part of accepting loss and change" and what the program says in the 10th step. It also mentions this same message about "justifiable anger" in the big book and several other places. These are the routes of resentments. Resentments are anger turned inward, and the main tool our disease uses to compel us to drink. In fact the main focus of the 12 steps is to get rid of resentments (against God, ourselves, and others), and how to keep from getting more resentments. Unfortunately we AA's like to play the victim role, resentments and villains are the necessary playing pieces in that Game. And it's a game that we always lose, and the stakes are high. But oh boy, do we ever want to hold on to our resentments. It's like holding on to a go Flu that keeps us sick perpetually. It's just our low self esteem trying to shift the focus on someone else, make them the object of our own disatisfaction, feel crappy about it and then drink over it. It's such an illusion.
Regarding anger, the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous says:
"It is plain that a life which includes deep resentment leads only to futility and unhappiness. To the precise extent that we permit these, do we squander the hours that might have been worth while. But with the alcoholic, whose hope is the maintenance and growth of a spiritual experience, this business of resentment is infinitely grave. We found that it is fatal. For when harboring such feeling we shut ourselves off from the sunlight of the Spirit. The insanity of alcohol returns and we drink again. And with us, to drink is to die.
If we were to live, we had to be free of anger. The grouch and the brainstorm were not for us. They may be the dubious luxury of normal men, but for alcoholics these things are poison."
About "The Language of Leting go" book that the original posted reading came from. It's a book by Melodie Beatie, the Author of "Codependent no more" which is a pre-requisite reader for the Codependents Anonymous program of which I've been a member since 6 months after I got sober. She's not my favorite author on the subject, I overwhelmingly prefer John Bradsaw (shameless plug). With that said, while I think that a lot of what Coda has to offer can really help most AA's, what's good for Coda recovery is not always good for AA's. This is clearly an example of a direct conflict (and I can't believe that I'm going to say this, I must be getting "Old Timerism" LOL) and why you will hear it said in meetings to stick with AA approved literature, especially in your first couple years. It's not recommended to get involved with Coda/ACOA until you have a year of sobriety and a good handle on your AA recovery, because the issues that those programs will raise can cause emotional pain and possibly a strong urge to drink over it. Our primary purpose is to stay sober.
I feel that the whole point of the original post was about dealing with anger in a state of grief and/or loss and not in general, day-to-day terms. The post did say 'To not allow others, or ourselves, to go through anger and blame may slow down the grief process.'
There are, in fact, five stages of grief and each stage has a vital role to play. The five stages are:-
Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance.
If we get stuck in one stage or the other, the process of grieving is not complete, and cannot be complete. Thus there will be no healing. A person MUST go through the five stages to be well again, to heal. ALL five stages must be completed for healing to occur.
And, with us alkies, it's even more important to handle issues like that.
That's it.
Carol
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Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. ~Dr. Seuss
I added to my post above concerning the source of the reading in the original post. I'm fully aware of the grief process as I took a college course on it. I disagree with it and it's just that simple. There are many people that realize that grief is a purely selfish process, and as it relates to God's will, it is mostly unnecessary given the tools of spirituality and this progam. Do you think it's better for a newcomer (or someone with marginal sobrity or emotional stability) to get angry, drink, and suffer the consequences, or avoid these "vital" steps till some other time when they can deal with it without going around the bend. Great thing about issues is they don't go away, but they tend to demagnify over time. Time heals.
Also most dysfunctional people can't differentiate between someone dying and the waiter forgetting the mayo on the ham sandwich that they ordered. We can make a big deal out of nothing at all. It's all there for you in the Big Book, and the 12 & 12. This is AA that we are talking about, so would kindly use program material to support your opinion?
Hiya, Dean. You're welcome though that wasn't my intention exactly ;) I came back in with my tuppence because I can see the message in regards to recovery here. I can't stop myself from having emotional responses to things. Sometimes I will get angry. It can be automatic & I think like it says above, natural as human nature. Our gift in sobriety is to be able to deal with it when it comes i.e. allow & accept my feelings & then deal with them appropriately by sitting with & acknowledging my feelings & allowing them to be. Not turning on myself or hating myself for having them in the first place. This is acceptance & self~love for me. I then have to look at why I am angry & then look at my part in things. The above is more to do with a grieving 'process' & I do have to work & allow myself to pass through these stages rather than suppress or stuff emotions. Sometimes something isn't my fault but I can still learn from how I may have put myself in a position to be hurt in the first place. It becomes dangerous when I go from working through these feelings to actually developing resentment. Anger is natural & my program teaches me how to deal with it lest resentment be formed & cloud my head. Being human I will have these feelings from time to time. It's what I do with it that determines the quality of my day. In the case of grief, I think it's good to explore all of the thoughts & feelings that come with that then I know I have listened for & heard what my opinions, feelings & viewpoints are on the matter. When I come out the other side I know I've dealt with & come to terms with my reservations or any selfishnesses & then perhaps I can find peace of mind & acceptance again. It's a sensitive process & a healing one too. I have to know what I'm feeling in the first place before I can do anything with it. I've spoken in the first person rather than to generalise about us 'as a species' even though I know this can be true! I'm learning how to speak just for myself & leave it to others to decide if they can identify. A.A. & recovery has been teaching me this. I come from a position where I love the ethos & teachings of A.A. though it's not reinventing rocket science. It's a 'school of thought' that draws on some universal truths that can have similar values seen in other disciplines regarding the ego like Buddhism & Subud. A.A. is very good at spelling this stuff out in its literature & doesn't have to be taken as stand alone. I find these other principles deepen & compliment my understanding. I hope this makes sense. Please forgive if I've assumed anything about where you're coming from. I can be a competitive bastid & lack humility too ;) Nice to be here & share with you, Dean. My tuppence worth for today. I hope you find it interesting! Have a fantastic day, Danielle x
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Progress not perfection.. & Practice makes Progress!
Danielle, I always enjoy reading your posts, you are quite a talented writer. I was just kidding about the humility thing. I'd go on here and speak about tools that I use to circumvent the grieving process in a healthy way via pause, spirituality, benefit of doubt, and logic that is working very well for me, but imho women are wired differently in the way that they respond emotionally, and it's all good in the grand scheme, so I'm going to say what works for me may not work for someone else. And go back to the focus of my comments that whatever the context of the original post, it can be misinterpreted by a newcomer (at least) and cause them to question the heart of the 10th step and imo, a large part of the program. View as a disclaimer if you wish.
Thanks for the well wishes, I hope your day is the best one ever!
It seems to me that you took my posting, ran with it, and got the whole darned thing a bit 'out of kilter'!
There was no conflict between what I posted and 'official' AA literature - if you read it all right.
I acknowledge that you have studied the grief process. With everything I study, I always try my best to carry with me the thought of a wise man who said: 'So much knowledge - so little wisdom'. It keeps my feet firmly on the ground - I hope!
As to:
"This is AA that we are talking about, so would [you] kindly use program material to support your opinion?"
This Board is not AA - or an adjunct thereof. And you're not a Moderator of this Board. It's MIP with many good, caring and grateful folk around. All I can bring to MIP is my Experience, Strength and Hope - coming from a good heart, coupled with my humility and gratitude. I do that, or try to, every day.
Dean, it's not about lectures from your viewpoint.
Your viewpoint is fine - for you. You may have studied and studied - until the cows come home. But, so what?
Unless we can give to every newcomer, and to anyone else who logs in, the benefit of Experience, Strength and Hope - coming from a good heart, coupled with humility and gratitude, then we might as well not post further.
Take care,
Carol
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Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. ~Dr. Seuss
Kind compliments there, Dean. Thankyou! Maybe we are (wired different) I don't know. It doesn't matter to me because we are all individuals which is why our contribution is valued for its own sake. I know what you're saying when it comes to the message for the Newcomer. We can strip things down to the grass roots of the Program & it's these staples that get us sober to begin with so I stand by the A.A. way before it's 'watered down'. I hope that as I share, my learnings & influence from working my Program & immersing myself in recovery via meetings, sponsorship, fellowship & literature, come shining through. I can only be where I'm at & I love working all this stuff out. I suppose as I sober up I can afford to think about the intricacies of things as long as I remember to keep it simple at the end of each day. I'm still learning lots & consider myself relatively new since I came around Aug 06. I like the differences we can share. I find them interesting & stimulating though I realise they might not be what the Newcomer is looking for. It takes allsorts to make up our A.A. & I like the adage 'take what you like & leave the rest'. That's one of the kind things about A.A. & its non~judgementalism. Another example could be our ability to share & compare occasionally without getting impassioned & upset with any difference or disagreement. A.A. teaches me this humility too & with my ego I'm always having to watch my words, meanings & motives! Anyhoo, I hear you :) Thanks for your share & the shameless plug. Just got a few different books by said author in the post. Maybe that'll come up in future conversation! I'll sign off for now with the following ~ (A.A. approved ;) Danielle x
A.A.'s School of Life ~ taken from 'As Bill Sees It' pg143
Within A.A., I suppose, we shall always quarrel a good bit. Mostly, I think, about how to do the greatest good for the greatest number of drunks. We shall have our childish spats and snits over small questions of money management and who is going to run our groups for the next six months. Any bunch of growing children (and that is what we are) would hardly be in character if they did less.
These are the growing pains of infancy, and we actually thrive on them. Surmounting such problems, in A.A.'s rather rugged school of life, is a healthy exercise.
A.A. Comes of Age p 233
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Progress not perfection.. & Practice makes Progress!
It seems to me that you took my posting, ran with it, and got the whole darned thing a bit 'out of kilter'!
No, I simply commented on what Mellodie Beatie wrote, and it looks like you're taking it personally that I disagree. That's regretable.
There was no conflict between what I posted and 'official' AA literature - if you read it all right.
You can keep reiterating your opinion if you'd like, you're entitled. I think I provided enough of an explanation to what I posted (which is AA's view on anger) but I'm not sure what you're trying to say. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
I acknowledge that you have studied the grief process. With everything I study, I always try my best to carry with me the thought of a wise man who said: 'So much knowledge - so little wisdom'. It keeps my feet firmly on the ground - I hope!
I guess all I can say is, " the proof is in the pudding isn't it"?
As to:
"This is AA that we are talking about, so would [you] kindly use program material to support your opinion?"
This Board is not AA - or an adjunct thereof. And you're not a Moderator of this Board. It's MIP with many good, caring and grateful folk around. All I can bring to MIP is my Experience, Strength and Hope - coming from a good heart, coupled with my humility and gratitude. I do that, or try to, every day.
This is a discussion board. I expressed my opinion about the quote from Mellodie Beatie, that really has nothing to do with you. I didn't criticise the posting of it, I didn't address you at all. I made no attempt to moderate. I quoted from the two books that we use in AA to support my disagreement with the Quote. If you can't take someone disagreeing with a posting of someone else's quote, then maybe you shouldn't post them.
Dean, it's not about lectures from your viewpoint.
Your viewpoint is fine - for you. You may have studied and studied - until the cows come home. But, so what?
That's nice thanks
Unless we can give to every newcomer, and to anyone else who logs in, the benefit of Experience, Strength and Hope - coming from a good heart, coupled with humility and gratitude, then we might as well not post further.
Sounds like something a moderator would say. I hope someday that you can understand why I took the time to comment on the differences between the quote, and AA's view on Anger and resentments. It's pretty clear really.
Interesting discussion!! Things were getting a little boring around here! "I like the differences we can share. I find them interesting & stimulating though I realise they might not be what the Newcomer is looking for. It takes allsorts to make up our A.A. & I like the adage 'take what you like & leave the rest'." Each one of us are totally different and in a different place in our sobriety. We are each unique but have so much to share with one another. From each of your posts I learned or realized something new. That is the beauty of MIP. (The things perhaps I didnt agree with..thats where "leave the rest " comes in) Its all GOOD! Lani
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"We tend to forget that happiness doesn't come as a result of getting something we don't have, but rather of recognizing and appreciating what we do have. "
Thanks for the warm welcome everybody! I was sharing with some newcomers the other day about how fortunate we are to have so many ways to communicate with fellow Alcoholics in the Program, such as email, forums, and cell phones. These things hadn't been around when I came into the program. Anyway, I figured it was time to try out a forum myself.
Here's a tidbit to add to the topic. After a failed suicide attempt, and before reaching AA, I went to a doctor and a minister for help. One told me I needed a vacation, the other said to stay off hard liquor and I'd be fine. Needless to say, I tend to steer clear of guidance that isn't direct from AA. My wife (a normie) tried to get me to read a book from a well known preacher of some sort. I won't read it because I don't want anything to cloud the teachings of AA in my head.
You're very welcome, Brian. I'm glad you're here. You're right to do whatever works for you. You may want to start a new topic & share a little more so that we can all welcome you properly! Welcome to MIP. Catch you out & about over the board. Have a great day, Danielle x
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Progress not perfection.. & Practice makes Progress!
