My dear beautiful Sober~vibers. I have some feelings I want to share with you. I'm going, perhaps, through a transitional period & I want to move forward in a good way & not be driven by any unfortunate thoughts that may take me off on a path of possible self~destruction. I have been taught to share where I'm at & in loyalty I will do so. First & foremost, I want to speak up regarding our treatment & attitude towards those who may have views differing to our own. I consider myself at this time as much a member of AA as anyone else & I respect its principles & traditions. In this view I feel we may have fallen short of the mark & perhaps ostracised someone we could have dealt with differently. Without disrespecting the decision, judgement & action already taken I want to ask if there could be a gentler way. I feel we have ostracised one of our own in the thought of protecting others. I feel this is a censorship & for every atheist or agnostic who walks through our doors there may be those with differing religious beliefs also. It is these people who may be an inspiration in staying sober to others who have inklings of that nature. My individuality is precious to me & I don't want to be a part of anything that is to the exclusion of some who may want the same help. I may have missed where someone's religious beliefs were being passed off as AA but I would hope that our response can diffuse such in an indirect way without having to kick anybody out. My fear is that there IS a rulebook here which means conform or risk the consequences. Sometimes I fear sharing who I am if I feel it will go against the grain & there have been times I have braced myself in case of rejection. This feeling touches on a physical sensation of sickness & I'd hate for anyone we turn from this board to feel like that. I wonder if there is a way we can deal gently with anyone who would risk jeopardising what we have by helping to provide a wider context for their views by diluting them indirectly with balance in our own shares. We may not share someone else's convictions but we can have a right to have them & feel safe here. I needed to say this. I wanted to make peace with you & regain my serenity. I believe in the best of this board & want to diffuse any anger I could harbor. I have been wanting to go on my way & cut back my contact with AA so that I could live a more balanced & productive life. I do not want to live in meetings & feel that I cannot function without a daily dose of some sort. It's been 12months commitment for me so far & I have taken it all extremely seriously. I felt AA out from the beginning & wanted to stay only if I felt it was good to the core so that it could bring the best out in me. It has been counter~productive in some ways but at the same time I know it is a game of patience & that any attempts to move on can simply be a 'cleverly' winding path back to a drink. I don't want this to be a disaster & I would still recommend AA to any Newcomer who wanted to stop as it has certainly worked for me. I just want to be able to function at some normal level now without replacing one addiction for another. I feel AA is coming to this for me & I don't know how I can possibly have all the things I've wanted & have or give up AA too. I don't know if I can. Maybe I'm destined to try it again & come back with some humility. I don't know. I could really chuckle at myself & my self~will. I just want to make some peace with my ego. My ego is like an addiction. I let it off the leash earlier in the week so to make friends with myself & feel that I could be who I wanted to be but then some of those old qualities slipped in again fed by the desire to be of self~righteousness. Like I want to have my cake & eat it. I don't know. I'm sharing because I don't want to be turfed out of the fellowship for thinking I could have it both ways. I also do not want to be spoken about behind my back as if I'm some big failure if I end up elsewhere. Sometimes I wonder if the literature is not a little harsh in its attitude towards those who would take a drink. Maybe its my own guilt that is colouring this. Like I said, I want to have my cake & eat it. Drink & maintain self~respect. My dream of controlling it has quite possibly returned with a vengeance.. There it is! It's out! I said it! lol Shit. lol I'm having my Opening Latihan next week with Subud & I'm thinking/feeling that this may restore the balance in my soul I've been needing which in turn would motivate me to drink less & more measured anyway. Like a temperance in my life because I'm not so desperate to achieve some fantastic greatness that I can't live up to. I have certainly been lost in my life-time & AA helped me to find me & supported me in my desire not to drink. Nobody told me I was an alcoholic besides myself. I think I'm still to find out. I can't lose really. Either I am & will be back to share so with humility or I'm not & will drink sensibly. All I know is that it isn't a path that hasn't been taken before & I will be loved regardless. I'm glad I felt I could share with you. I feel so much better for having been honest with you & myself & I'm really sorry for going on! Thanks for being here. I am truly grateful to be able to speak with others who understand. Thanks for your help. I think I'm looking for compassion & unconditional love no matter what I do. I hope I haven't convinced anybody else to go out there & try it again when they seriously can't afford to & are working their best 1Day@aTime to keep it down. Alcohol can kill. I'm not convinced I'm going to get out there & try myself yet. Not today anyway ;) Danielle x
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Progress not perfection.. & Practice makes Progress!
I always try to think of the newcomers when I post here or when I share in the rooms. I wish to give back part of what was so freely given to me. My biggest fear is that something that I say could be misinterpreted and cause that poor alcoholic to go back out to a life of sheer misery, at best. I would find that incredibly hard to live with. I know who you are referring to in your post and it is a shame how things turned out. But, I do believe that the person was given a few chances to change her posts with regards to any newcomers. I didn't really know her as we never swapped pms or emails though.
I know all about wanting to have my cake and eat it. That is a big part of my ego and I can only face it one day at a time. For the time being, I guess that mostly I am quite content to be myself. At least I am honest and true in all my dealings with everybody and I can look the world square in the eye.
But, I know that if I tried to drink and keep myself respect then I would fail. I am totally sure that I am an alcoholic. I know it right through me. If I am ever in doubt I go back to my step one and read what I wrote about the powerlessness and the unmanageability. Then, all doubt leaves me.
I guess that being an alcoholic is now part of me, like the color of my eyes, hair and so on. It's not something that I am proud of or ashamed of. It's just part of me.
When I first came to AA in March 2004, I was 'almost sure' that I was an alcoholic. After eight wonderful weeks of not drinking and gaining some of my self-respect back, I decided that I had 'learned my lesson' and couldn't possibly go as far as a lot of the alcoholics that I had known.
All I did was to prove myself badly wrong. I had eighteen months of hell that I wouldn't wish on anybody. But, when I walked back in to the rooms of AA I was met with the compassion & unconditional love that you talk about it. I now hold that very dear to me for every single alcoholic that I know through the rooms and through this board.
Take very good care of yourself, won't you?
(((Hugs)))
Carol
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Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. ~Dr. Seuss
Part of it? I think CoonCat shared in an ealier post
Quote.."I don'tknow what kind of Alcoholic you are, but when someone starts telling me what I should do instead of sharing what worked for them"
The AA program as has been mentioned before, as being derived from The Oxford Group, and the Bible..It Was..
It was all toned down...to a higher power of our understanding, and one outside of ourselves...to keep things simple..and attract newcommers..or as it says in the Big Book...One does not hafta believe in anything..
A Higher Power could be anything from Good Orderly Direction...To JC Himself......and most in AA..call that Higher Power "God" as we understand HIM...
It is a personal thing..
There is nothing wrong with sharing our beliefs..
However when we try to push those beliefs unto someone else...we could be faced with a few dilemas..especially if Im going to say to a newcommer Jesus Christ will save you!! Follow me!! :)
Conclusion? This is a spiritual program...not a religious program....
Someone on the board was asked gently many times to tone it down...and through pms...we were told to go screw ourselves..
so...they were asked to leave....
This is not a "MY" aa program.....It is a WE aa program...
Someone mentioned the 24 hour a day book....
In reality....this book was removed ...a while ago.(even tho it is still available)...and was replaced with the Daily Reflections...
However...a lot of groups still use it....and thats up to them..
You asked in an earlier post about any objections to posting it on the board...There were done...so....no problemo..:)
Thats all I got gal....and this redneck needs more caffine..
You have a great day eh...
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Live each day as if it were your last...because tomorrow?
It might be.
Hi all: Danielle I sure hope your not thinking of leaving us and trying to do things on your own. As Phill said, Its a WE program. Its funny how I have felt so wonderful about things when you chose to share. When I hadnt heard from you I felt worried and concerned. Of couse for your well being, but because I loved your honesty and what you had to share with all of us. I agree, AA can sometimes consume our lives. Yet another addiction!!! I have to laugh...I posted in the beginning about "where is the rule book.?" Cant remember the exact responses, but bottom line is...we do have choices...The choice to listen to what others share, going to a different meeting or web site, taking just what we need and leave the rest. When I first read all the drama that was going on here with what people were posting I admit I was a little upset. I love that the moderators take the time to protect us newcomers, yet, I have always felt that this was the coolest site to be on because I could REALLY share whatever I needed to share: without predjudice, but with complete honesty. I have learned that we all have a different view of who our Higher power is. I refer to him as God in my postings. No I dont try to stuff it down other peoples throats and it could be seen as a turn off when other people do it. But, I learned to just skim over the things I really didnt benefit from. Bottom line is, we all have different opinions. The moderators here have been here a longer time than me. Theres a reason for that. I appreciate that they protect us. But, we ALL need to feel like we can share whatever it is we need to share. If it isnt working for us, maybe we do need to move on. I avoid one meeting here in town b/c I couldnt stand that I was always being told what I can and cannot do. Funny thing is, the person in that meeting that bugged me the most asked if I wanted to go to lunch w/ a few of them!!! So Danieele, do what is right for you. I feel like if I stop touching base everyday, somewhere, somehow, I will just go back to drinking and that will be that. Hope you have a great day. Long winded Lani
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"We tend to forget that happiness doesn't come as a result of getting something we don't have, but rather of recognizing and appreciating what we do have. "
In regards to your first concern. This is a message board about AA. It is Not AA. We discuss all things AA but none of the formal meeting preambles, reading of the 12&12, how it works etc... are read, and It's hardly anonymous, and it really can't be a substitute for attending AA meetings. And with this message board being "outside of AA", the controversy that you speak of is exactly why it's important to make this distinction hence newcomers and visitors may get the wrong impression. With all that said, this being a message board and a public display, there is material that is deemed inappropriate and it's the volunteer moderators job to make those decisions and take appropriate actions concerning them. The moderators are to be respected, and on all the boards that I've participated on (6) insubordination or criticism of the moderators got you an immediate ban from the message board. That's what happens. As far as inappropriate material goes, here's an example, suppose I continued posting that you need to worship Allah, or Abraham to get sober?
With all that said, your later comments indicated that you didn't want to be part of AA anymore because of the banning of a member on this board (which is not AA). I hope you understand that the moderators didn't have a choice. Then you went on to talk about how you'd like to drink again. You really don't need an excuse for that, if you're an alcoholic that's what comes natural, just go out and do it. We'll leave the light on for you. This program is for people who want it not for people who need it. The Big Book is pretty clear about that when it said "go out and try some controlled drinking". I hope you don't, it'd be a shame to throw away a year of sobriety and no one could be certain if you would return. I would agree that you are confused and I think that your disease is talking to you. And for those who think that I might be "preaching", my disease talked me out the door over 20 times in 2 years of going to meetings. Looking back my head didn't really stop spinning till I had about 3 years, and I didn't really feel comfortable with my sobriety till I had 5 years. The Second step does work but we can choose to have stinking thinking anytime, even after 20 years of sobriety. All you have to do is allow the conversation between your ears to continue. That's when I take my ears to a meeting. It is inconvenient to make the effort to go to meetings on a daily basis, but I'm afraid that it's a bit more inconvenient to be dead. Please keep coming back.
Let me say, there was so very much going on behind the scenes that the moderators made certain the group was not bothered with as a whole--most of her posts are still here. She has posted many many things that were totally valid and sharing. In these, she did share her beliefs, but gently, the way any of us would. It was only when she would go off the deep end, and one of the mods would have to spend literally hours sitting and reading what she posted to make certain it wasnt inappropriate. If we had shared some of the pms we were all recieving you may have seen why decisions were made as they were. Suffice it to say, they too are not approriate for others to read, and did not have the gentle philosophy that many of her posts had. The mods are here for a purpose, and respecting their determinations is a given. I'm sure they would like to be out fishing rather than spending whole afternoons to ward off viscious letters in trying to protect the group as a whole. When I would get notified of a pm from her, Danielle, my hands would start to shake because I didnt know what to expect. And believe me, I tried so hard to befriend her and it was thrown right back in my face. In the end, I begged her to just let it go and lets get on with the business of helping others, and only recieved another nasty note back. The mods went to every length to deal with this. Now? It's time to move on to those who are still here. hugs chris
Cunning, baffling, powerful! Danielle, my friend, your post just proved that to me once again. Thank you...... My disease is always waiting for me to let my guard down, or get some sobertime and it starts to whisper in my ear "maybe you're not an alcoholic'. I made the mistake of listening to my disease not so long ago. I stopped going to meetings, I stopped interacting with fellow recovering alcoholics and I started to think I could control my drinking. ONE night proved me wrong! ......I heard someone say once "while I'm in a meeting my disease is in the parking lot doing push-ups".... The reality of it is, this disease is 'harsh' so the cure for it must be too. Alcohol kills! In more ways than one. Alcohol destroys! Not just the drinker but those around them..... I've been told by many longtimers, it takes many years for the fog to lift enough to 'see' the actual light. I've also been told that magic happens when a 5th step has been completed. (I'm doing my first one Sunday with my new sponsor & praying they're right! )
Please don't quit before the miracle happens....But if you do, as well stated above, "we'll leave the light on for ya". I count my blessings that this program is here, that these people are here and that they know it's progress not perfection. .....If perfection were required, I'd have been kicked out long ago.
Prayers and hugs to you, girl.
-- Edited by Doll at 08:51, 2007-10-20
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Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass... It's about learning to dance in the rain.
Thankyou so much for your care, compassion & attention. I am truly humbled & I'm glad I have enough sobriety to see the wisdom & kindness in your words. I have had some cyncism in my mind this week & the ego has been in full flow but at the same time it has taught me what my mind in this illness is capable of & I would hate to lose what I have, that which has been given, shared & worked for to one fork in the road that could lead to who knows where (!) I don't want to know where I think it could go that might be good. I have my family today, my self~respect, my concentration, heart & forward~thinking. I don't want to lose any of this through bitter resentment that I didn't or couldn't do any of it on my own. I am grateful that you have cared for me even when I have felt angry or self~righteous. It is a true miracle that I haven't taken a drink in all this time. Thankyou for sharing your sobriety & determination with me. I feel so much better. I'm going to a noonday meeting in a minute & seeing my Dad afterwards. I was going to see him straight from work but right now I am in one of those moments where I have to renew my commitment & go to any lengths to stay sober so that means a meeting first. My sister is celebrating her birthday tonight with drinks & karaoke with my family in town. This has been playing in my head & if it comes to it I may go to a meeting instead of that if I feel I'm not in the right place. I already took said sister to the Ballet last weekend in the name of her birthday so I know I've already done something with her in regards to quality time & a present. The thing is, if I want to stay available to my family for the long~haul I have to do whatever it takes today to make that so & possible. Thanks for your time, my Sober~vibers :) My love & gratitude has deepened further still. Have a happy, sober day. I will check in later & share how it went. Thanks so much for being here for & with me. Respect to the Moderators. I can see & appreciate the time & work you put into making this site a success & safe place. Thankyou for taking care of us. We all have choices about how we respond to things & I am saddened she felt she couldn't be more dicerning with her input & interactions. Thanks for your patience. Take good care til later, Danielle x
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Progress not perfection.. & Practice makes Progress!
Yea Danielle: Keep up the good work!! We love ya girl!!-Lani
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"We tend to forget that happiness doesn't come as a result of getting something we don't have, but rather of recognizing and appreciating what we do have. "
