Hey all, it's been awile since checking in. So sorry to dump this but I really need to vent.
Picture this, the gosslings have hatched...5 of them, so cute! So after my children 5 and 2 beg me to go feed them, I decide that it would be a good idea. We take some bread down and are feeding them. My 5 year old asks me when she can pick one up, I tell her she can't because they are wild animals and it's not a good idea to pick it up. Fastforward a few minutes she ask's...again, and I tell her again, fastforward and now she is chasing one around and proceeds to pick it up. I look over and yell put it down, the parent geese are hissing, with the comotion she THROWS the gossling. It landed on the cement, and I think it got injured. Now I am beyond furious, first of all she did not listen to me, second of all I think she seriously injured the bird. I am sooo powerless right now and I am not capable of dealing with this feeling. I really don't know what to do, I am PISSED because she proceeds to not listen to me and it brings back all those times when I was not listened to as a child and it's very powerful. I am recognizing that these are the type of situations where drinking would seem to solve it. While I don't have the desire right now, I understand that when I am feeling helpless/powerless, that is when I am more volunerable to damage myself by self medicating. Oh I would love to not have to deal with this right now!! Thanks for listening while I vent.
Moon honey, I love ya, as Bill W and Dr Bob said, one drunk caring for another. And, I also had two young daughters(a long time ago), and went thru pretty much all of it. So, how is the 5 year old behaving right now.....???...defensive, disorganized, devastated..., what?? Have you tried to get into what she is feeling right now?
Is she going to end up on this board 15 years from now stating, "I was not listened to as a child..." Yes, you are rightly upset that she did not listen, and that she may have hurt the bird..................... Do you know for certain what her true feelings are right now about the incident?
Hi Moon, I felt for you in that situation. Anyone would have been furious & outraged. How long it lasts is the only choice we have. My temper was a lot worse when I was drinking. I didn't actually consciously realise I had one til I started to sober up & then would surprise myself with these seemingly uncontrollable fits that bubbled up. Your 5year old would have been acting on an impulse I imagine. Felt the urgency in your voice & wanted to rebel or just do the most extreme thing in response. I'm sure she wouldn't have meant any real harm but we don't like these feelings inside us do we? It makes us feel helpless, futile & impotent. People should do as we say with the infinite wisdom we have! I think it's just as it is & it's passed now. Your little one may even be worried for the bird or feel guilty (?) for the action though I remember the first time I ever felt guilt was around the age of 7 or 8 when I refused to kiss Mum before school & wasn't at all sure what this horrible feeling was! I hope the bird's ok & you can let it go. It's just sad but the way it is. We can't change the past. We can only learn & try to pass on or express to others. Don't feel bad for what happened. It was out of your hands & you did try, to trust & give the kiddies some freedom. As for it bringing up some old stuff for you, maybe that's a good insight & worth writing & sharing about.. Something for a chat with your Sponsor if you have one yet? I hope you feel better for venting. Anyone would have been upset. We don't like to harm living things, natural compassion. You have a measure of control & influence with your children though. as you know, they'll still always be their own little people x Take care for now, thanks for letting us know how you are. Love & prayers, Danielle x
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Progress not perfection.. & Practice makes Progress!
I have to admit, I had to re-read this a few times. It made me feel a bit shaken that so much anger could be triggered by a five year old not listening---I don't know a whole lot of "healthy" five year olds that do listen to the first "no". It was truly an unfortunate incident, yes.
Perhaps you are still feeling "unheard"? Would it help to find a counselor or someone you trust and talk to them? I believe you mentioned eight years of non-drinking a few weeks back. Do you have a sponsor? Sometimes, when things aren't hunky dorey, it's easy to misdirect anger, if we aren't aware of what is causing the anger simmering below consciousness. I hope things are better now for you, and that you were able to sit down with her and tell her the reasons why you were saying no to her. Little ones are so full of self-will until they learn boundries and develope the concept of cause and affect. Chris
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"Never argue with an idiot... They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience..."
It seems to me that, somewhere in there, the roles have been switched, and instead of being a parent whose child did not heed, you feel like the child who was not heeded by the parent! Also, instead of recognizing the validity of your anger that your child did not heed you, and in fact purposely disobeyed you with the consequences that an innocent bird was injured,, you are being psychoanalyzed as if you should think the disobedience was cool!
You gave your child wise instructions, and it would have been wise for your child to heed. Parents have a duty to guide their children, a responsiblity to teach them what is right and what is wrong. Yes, children will sometimes have to learn the hard way, or someone else will have to suffer because of a child's abuse, but that doesn't mean it's okay.
Now we get to the crux of our problem as alcoholics. We lack the social and coping skills to deal with situtions like this in the most healthy and constructive ways. We think of drinking to escape having to really deal with it, or we exaggerate the first part of the Serenity Prayer,,, 'accepting what we cannot change' while we forget to change the things we can. This is a big reason why we pass on to our children our dysfunctionality, and fail to pass on healthy functionality.
I have spent years, energy and tears and sweat, trying to remedy my ACoA dysfunctionality to be a better parent to my child than my parents were to me, and to improve my coping skills so that I can be a better parent than I was. I don't drink over things any more,, or fly into rages, or run away. I am better able to communicate either approval or disappointment,, better able to know the difference between 'enabling' and giving real needed help. I'm better able to share my experience, strength and hope with my child,, supporting his constuctive decisions and communicating my concerns about the wisdom of some decisions.
I would impress upon this child the importance of recognizing and respecting the wisdom of the guidance that the parent gives,,, and the possible serious consequences of disobedience. In simple terms,, I would say, "Mind your mother!" And to Moon, sometimes we don't trust our own instincts, or have healthy self-esteem, and these insecurities are sensed by our children. You were wise in your instructions to her, and are justified in being angry and anxious that she disregarded your instructions. I would give her a 'time out', after an honest sharing of your disappointment and sadness at the dangerous situation she put herself in, and the injury to the bird.
twynaltr,
love in recovery,
amanda
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do your best and God does the rest, a step at a time
I didn't think the disobedience was cool, just a typical show of rebelliousness to boundaries like Chris said. Not cool at all. I don't have any children of my own & I'm no expert at discplining or guiding them. I just know that I would feel quite powerless too unless, perhaps, it was my own child but even then.. (spoken with the true ignorance of one who doesn't have them!) I hope my words haven't flown in the face of any sensible recovery. I'm still new to all of this & have lots of growing up yet to do. I hope you're feeling better today Moon & have some perspective. I can be quite an abstract character occasionally (that's something in my alcoholism I'm trying to figure out!) I hope your little one has learned something from the experience. I also hope I'd be able to exercise a similar kind yet firm & effective approach as Amanda suggests. Good luck in future efforts. Love & prayers, Danielle x
-- Edited by Sobrietyspell at 11:54, 2007-04-27
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Progress not perfection.. & Practice makes Progress!
hi, danielle,, we are all just sharing our experience, strength and hope here,, so no worries about your ideas. some of us have kids and some don't. I have a grown son that I learned on. I didn't want to follow my parents abusive and dysfunctional ways,,, and tried to learn parenting skills,,, there are programs for that. It is often very challenging,, and there is a fine line sometimes,, and not everyone agrees. Some people told me 'spare the rod and spoil the child', while others said, 'give him freedom to explore and make his own mistakes'.. some said be active in PTA and scouts,, while some said,, let him find his own way.
A parent is just a human being who has a child, and tries to raise that child the best s/he can. We need a support group of our own!
love in recovery,
amanda
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do your best and God does the rest, a step at a time
I agree! Thanks for the reassurance, Amanda. I can get quite paranoid & doubt myself. It's a problem & one I hope to find answers for in my Stepwork. Particularly Step4 where I can figure out my defects & find some humour regarding them. Being a parent must be one of the hardest jobs in the world. I've had the luxury of living 30yrs so far without & still only just beginning to grow up because of sobriety. Maybe we're hard on ourselves. Maybe I'd have done a much better job than I imagine if I'd have had them! Who knows. It only is as it must surely be. One Day at a Time. Very simple & Thank God we can come here & thrash it out. Thanks for posting Moon & inspiring us, Dxx
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Progress not perfection.. & Practice makes Progress!
It is a tricky thing indeed parenting and very difficult to avoid transferring our chilhood needs onto our child and overcompensating in some way.
When i had my first child and as she was approaching the age of willfullness a very wise lady once said to me........ never forget the power of NO keep it for when it is needed use it too often and it becomes powerless so use it wisely with your children
However we are not perfect and parenting is tough and exhausting so we are often tierd , when my children are being 'naughty' i always try to pause take a grounding breath get down to there eye level make eye contact speak calmly with them and usually it defuses. If the damage is done ie it all happened too fast i take the same approach and allow them some quiet time to reflect on their actions, and after this they can usually see their part
I've been following this thread and as someone who works with small children I was kind of waiting to respond. I think there are some very valid and good responses here already.
You know what, 'though, you did very good coming to us to vent. Anger can help us understand something is not connecting or our communication needs readdressing. It's an opportunity for self-examination. When I'm angry at a situation involving a child, it can be difficult to seperate the two in times of stress or emergancy. I look for an opportunity to step away from the situation and then when I'm by myself I can assess why I am angry.
I usually find it's my own problem resurfacing and projecting. You're very fortunate to realize right off the bat where your anger was coming from.
I think of children as aliens (no, I'm not a Scientologist) who have only been on this earth for a few years. They are (and this is true) physiologically different from you and me. They CANNOT think like you and me because of their physiology but also lack of experience. I often think they are so much wiser then us adults and I feel truly blessed to work with them. I try to learn from them as much as teach them.
Now, a small child cannot understand (the way you do) what was going on with the gosslings and you. They have so much love to give, she was probably just aching to give it to the gossling. Her experience of the event was completely and entirely different from you and she doesn't have the experience or vocabulary to articulate her thoughts. You might want to ask her what happened to get her perspective. Of course children need discipline and need to learn that there are consequences to their actions.
When I realize I unjustly got angry at a child, I approach them and discuss the matter with them. If I listen to their interpretation of events . . . and there are often long periods of silence as they search for words . . . and accept what they say (no matter how different from my memory of the event) . . . then I do my best to explain why I was upset and I apologize for not listening to them and/or asking them first what was going on in their minds. This feels incredibly good to a child to be listened to as you have shared.
I'm a huge animal lover too. And man-o-mighty do I have to bite my tongue when I see a child mishandling a living creature. But the fact is, I'm responsible for introducing them to an experience and if I haven't properly prepared them for it, then their misdeeds are really on me. And man, do I feel guilty when that happens, but I usually try to look at it as a learning opportunity for everyone involved.
I brought a baby chic home yesterday (just to have for one night) to introduce to the children here (3 1/2 years and 11 months old). The 3 1/2 year old was amazing with the baby chic. Of course this is entirely different from your situation as the chic was a classroom animal (not wild) and I'd told the 3 1/2 year old he could hold her. The 11 month old wanted to pet her too and unfortunately at one point pinched the baby bird. The bird freaked out and I inhaled quickly saying "Oh, no" a little loudly (I wasn't angry, just alarmed). The 11 month old is such a gentle child and so pure. He began to cry understanding he'd hurt the baby. I should have held his hand to guide his stroking instead of allowing him to choose how to pet the baby. Developmentaly, he just wasn't capable of knowing this. We were able to sooth the boy and the bird and create a more positive experience between the two later.
Listen to your inner-child now--maybe find someone to listen to that inner-child too. She (the child in you) has a right to heal.
Mistakes happen, Moon. The important thing is your reflecting on it right now-- Considering how to modify your children's behavior, create consequences for breaking rules, and understand the minds of your beautiful children.
