I recovered from 3 years of alcoholism and I honestly don't feel any sort of accomplishment...

POOKISTAN · Member

I recovered from 3 years of alcoholism and I honestly don't feel any sort of accomplishment...

Wren · MIP Old Timer

I just managed to delete a reply to you, so I'll try again. Sheesh. First, welcome to MIP. After reading your post, I almost didn't know what to say. Almost.

All anyone has is this moment. I can look at the past and see all the crap there, or I can try and decipher the lessons in it. I can look at some of the things that suck right now, and take what action I can to change them. But I cannot control the future. I can only touch what and who is around me at any given moment. If, at the end, all I can look back on is the fact that I was here, that I helped someone out of the hell I left behind, that I've touched even one person, I'm okay with that. That person may touch ten more people, on and on. But all I have is the moment, and this moment is the only thing in my life I have even a modicum (sp) of control over. I'm not in denial, I shudder like everyone else, but I'm one person, and I do what I'm capable of. If I could speak like Gandhi, I'd be out there doing it. But, what I do have is my experience,my strength in some areas and a great deal of hope to share with others. When everything is said and done, I hope I can know that I helped ease those around me, because what else is there? Just life on life's terms. That's all any of us get. It's what we do with those terms, how we define ourselves by them. I don't want to look back and see that I've been defined by something that's 90 proof. Stick around, I hope you'll read something that hits home with you and keep posting. Chris

Quetzal · MIP Old Timer

Hi and welcome to MIP.

It is a super website with lots of friendly and helpful people here.

I do hope that you'll stay around and keep posting.

Take care,

Carol

TLH · MIP Old Timer

Hmmm.... I think I know a bit about how you feel. (That should worry you.) And yeah- the whole idea that it all may not matter is a little daunting, to say the least.

My personal views dont seem to be super well recieved and seem to be more tolerated than anything else, and so I wont be trying to shove religion down your throat. But spirituality is another thing entirely. In my search for my own spirituality I look inside of me and ask myself what I think is right. That's the best I can do, and so that's what I do.

I go through life on the assumption that while I cannot prove that god exists I also cannot prove that god doesn't, and so I wont rule out the chance that there is something more to life. And following that line of thought- while I'm this tiny part of a larger whole and have no power over the end outcome, I can try to live the best life I can and try to live to the standards that I hold important in the event that it turns out that I was right and these things were important.

Worst case scenario with that approach is you lead a full life and are at least relatively healthy and happy while your here.

I agree with you on a few points there, but maybe the sense of urgency you're feeling about it is not completely warranted. Were I in your shoes I would try to find somone to talk to about this that is articulate and intelligent and able to stay out of the religious end of this and keep it as analytical as is possible.

Hope this makes sense. Aloha- Toby

TLH · MIP Old Timer

Okay- so I posted kind of quickly because I needed to shower and get to bed, but I was laying there thinking about this and maybe I was being too delicate about this. I hate to give advice as I'm no expert, but whatever- take it for what it's worth.

First off- they've been saying the end is coming since the dawn of time. I wouldn't bank on it just yet. 1984 came and went without mishap, as did the whole Y2k hype. The internet is the world's greatest clearinghouse for hype, hysteria and misinformation. But just assuming that this stuff you read is correct, let's look at this another way:

You say that since it wont matter you may as well drink. I'm thinking what does drinking have to do with that at all? If it doesn't matter one way or another, why not just live each day to the fullest? Alcohol has nothing to do with it either way- the end of the world will continue on with or without the booze.

I'm kind of a history nut and read a lot of history and a lot of general literature by various academics and let me tell you all of it casts an ominous shadow of doubt on my optimism towards the future. Man seems to continually repeat his mistakes no matter how well they are documented. We're self destructive creatures and that probably wont change unless we learn to think differently as a matter of instinct. But as a person we can hold ourselves to our own personal standards and maintain some decent ethics and values and perhaps make the world a better place for the time that we're here.

Anyhow- I empathize with you on that topic- politics and the state of the world are depressing subjects, especially today. Not to be too harsh but perhaps you're using these as a reason to continue drinking, and let me as someone who's been there be the first to say that while it may not be doing any harm in the grand scheme of things, it's pretty likely that it's not going to do you any good.

My honest opinion? Go talk to a professional that deals with substance abuse. It sounds like you've gotten to the point where you're chasing your own tail with the apocolyptic holocaust idea and that cant be any fun.

Also- the religion thing: AA is big on religion, but you dont have to do anything you dont want to. You dont have to agree with anything you dont want to- you can sit there and just listen. I personally have very vague ideas about my spirituality and as far as AA goes I use what can help me and let the rest wash away like water off a duck's back. But it does work. I come from a family of drunk academics who thought they were too smart for any and all of it and most of them ended up going the AA route eventually. It just isn't smart to look at AA's success rate and say that it's a bunch of crap (not saying you, but many have done this). It's smart to go in with an open mind and be willing to try.

my .02

Hope I'm not terribly in your face and offensive, but your post seemed to express to me the words of someone who isn't very comfortable and is in a lot of pain and anxiety.

-- Edited by TLH at 05:33, 2007-04-02

-- Edited by TLH at 12:36, 2007-04-02

Laura · Senior Member

Hi. I'd like to offer you another welcome to MIP.

I agree with Toby that perhaps the imminent demise of the world is not so close at hand. I think the world has always been in a constant state of jeopardy--we could be hit by a meteor or (and this is coming from living on an island) be faced with a giant unexpected wave. It seems like humankind's preoccupation with its own end has long been a concern--stories passed on through literature and oral traditions have told tales of entire civilizations ending. Many old and new stories involve a lone protagonist as he or she observes the end of the world (as he or she knows it). And some civilizations certainly really did meet mysterious ends. I don't think you are alone in your concern. But there is a huge difference between reality and fanaticism. Be careful how much stock you put in websites you read online. Like the concept of God, many of them lack proof.

I applaud your strength, discipline, and insight to pursue higher education and your belief in your own intellect when the public school system failed you. It sounds (to me) like you are thirsting for more knowledge. I like Toby's idea about finding an intelligent person with whom you can speak about these thoughts. Perhaps you should continue your education--you express yourself eloquently and you are aware of your intellectual strengths . . . in fact, why not pursue a career in higher education? Become a professor? True, you won't control the wealth you spoke of, but you might not feel it an ignoble service.

There is so much beauty in this world--and 'beauty is truth, truth beauty . . .' -John Keats--be sure not to just look at the shadows cast by humanity. Are there any hopeful activities happening right now? Any huge discoveries and events that will help our moral progression and existence?

I hope to see you checking in again,

Laura

-- Edited by Laura at 05:53, 2007-04-02

Sick of being sick · MIP Old Timer

Life is what YOU make of it.

Dan, an AGNOSTIC alcoholic, living in North Dakota

(PS. Welcome to the board. Stick around. See what you pick up.)

Phil · MIP Old Timer

If one wakes up in the morning sober...thats a big plus in itself..

The rest of it? time takes time..

Accept the things we cannot change

Change the things we can

And acquire the wisdom to know the difference..

And truck on...

amanda2u2 · MIP Old Timer

Your story has some things that are common to my story. I also started at 17. I also went thru a time of preoccupation with the 'end of the world' . I found out that that was actually a symptom of a state of high anxiety - 'a feeling of impending doom'. It sounds like you really got pickled and have been experiencing some symptoms of what is called Delirium Tremens, or DT's, which can be very horrifying. If I were you, knowing what I know now, I would go to the Emergency Room, or a rehab center (since it looks like your doctor may not be familiar with this) and get some help to go through detoxification. That seems to be more imminently urgent for you than the end of the world. That was what landed me in a treatment place also, and I came out solidly transitioned to be on the road to recovery.

amanda

TLH · MIP Old Timer

I felt that way about Kuwait and Somalia. They played down the Baltic stuff, Afghanistan, Libya. the Balkans and Haiti to such an extent that the news never reached me until it was well past being old news.

The first memories of politics I have are of a piece of grafitti during Watergate on an abandoned service station that said "Impeach Nixon", a poem I learned from listening too much to my elders (Dont change Dicks in the middle of a screw- elect Nixon 72), and the 444 days that the Iranians had the 52 hostages. I grew up playing in punk bands and so in song ended up protesting Reagan, unfair police actions in the US, and a variety of stupid topics that seemed cool at the time and were pretty fun. In the end though there are a couple truths. One is that we've always been screwed and so far no government has really been that great. The other is that the rich control our government, that corporate entities have the government's ear and I cant see America's rich being stupid (or maybe selfless is a better word for it) enough to put themselves in danger. But who knows- maybe they have a bunker and think we're just collateral damage or calculated loss or something.

Me, I just live my life and when there's surf I'm on it. I try to be fair and just and help people when I can, and if the world goes to hell in a handbasket, who am I to complain? I've lived a pretty full life and have done pretty well. If there's absolutely nothing I can do about it, then it's out of my hands- no sense dwelling upon it to my own detriment. Instead I spend more time with my kids and try to enrich the quality of their lives and the lives of those around me.

God how would that be sitting out on some atoll surfing and getting the news that the rest of the world went to hell in a handbasket and now I had no home to go home to. That would suck......NOT! biggrin

-- Edited by TLH at 00:14, 2007-04-03

sj · Newbie

Hi- I'm very new and quite buzzing at the moment, I know we are all on teh same boat & at very different levels in our life and sometimes life is sad, but I know there is hope for all if we allow ourselvees that. So far that's waht I believe. My parents don't drink, but I a hav alot of alcoholica on both sides of my family & i'm afraid i'm already there. I'm scared because this is the first i have admitted that.

destinydreamer · Senior Member

"Instead I spend more time with my kids and try to enrich the quality of their lives and the lives of those around me. "

TLH - in response to what you wrote you have def helped me in my sobriety by your posts...

As for pookistan... The world may end tomorrow and it may end in a million years... we do not know for sure... so why not just live your life to the fullest and know that you made a difference while you were here and try not to focus on the world ending. It is out of your control... live for today.. live for this moment...

miller2 · Senior Member

If I only have one day left, just one, I would rather spend it being helpfull to some one else then being totally helpless. If only have I one hour, Id rather spend it being usefull, than usless. If only a moment shall pass, Id rather face it fearlessly than a meek shell of a man.
Id rather be ... and I can.
I have just this day, this moment. My warranty on tomorrow has run out, my gauranty on the past is void.
Your writing and views doesnt scare us a bit pookistan, we are all just as sick as you.
Some have been more so.
Your among like friends here.

destinydreamer · Senior Member

miller2... I agree with your post 100%!!!

Doll · MIP Old Timer

I only have 3 things to say to this post, because if I say more, it probably won't be pretty.....

1) A doctor who is not familiar with alcoholism will ALWAYS ask "why do you drink so much?"

2) Here are the results of Googling August 22!

Results 1 - 10 of about 614,000,000 for august 22

and last 3) Diazepam is just another name for VALIUM.

TLH · MIP Old Timer

August 22 is the 234th day of the year in the Gregorian calendar (235th in leap years), with 131 days remaining.

Events

* 565 - St. Columba reports seeing a monster in Loch Ness, Scotland.
* 1485 - The Battle of Bosworth Field decisively ends the Wars of the Roses.
* 1559 - Bartholome de Carranza, Spanish archbishop, is arrested for heresy.
* 1639 - Madras (now Chennai), India, is founded by the British East India Company after buying a sliver of land from local Nayak rulers.
* 1642 - Charles I calls the English Parliament traitors. Beginning of the English Civil War.
* 1654 - Jacob Barsimson arrives in New Amsterdam. He is the first Jewish immigrant to what is later the United States.
* 1717 - Spanish troops land on Sardinia.
* 1770 - James Cook's expedition lands on the east coast of Australia.
* 1775 - King George III declares the American colonies to be in open rebellion.
* 1780 - James Cook's ship HMS Resolution returns to England (Cook having been killed on Hawaii during the voyage).
* 1791 - Beginning of the Haitian Slave Revolution in Saint-Domingue.
* 1798 - French troops land in Kilcummin, County Mayo, Ireland to aid Wolfe Tone's United Irishmen's Irish Rebellion.
* 1831 - Nat Turner's slave rebellion revolt commences just after midnight in Southampton, Virginia, leading to the deaths of more than 50 whites and several hundred African Americans who were killed in retaliation for the uprising.
* 1848 - The United States annexes New Mexico.
* 1851 - The first America's Cup is won by the yacht America.
* 1875 - The Treaty of Saint Petersburg between Japan and Russia is ratified, providing for the exchange of Sakhalin for the Kuril Islands.
* 1864 - Twelve nations sign the First Geneva Convention. The Red Cross is formed.
* 1901 - Cadillac Motor Company founded.
* 1902 - Theodore Roosevelt became the first President of the United States to ride in an automobile.
* 1910 - Japan illicitly annexes Korea with the signing of the Japan-Korea Annexation Treaty. The name Korea was abolished and replaced with the ancient name Joseon.
* 1911 - Theft of the Mona Lisa is discovered.
* 1914 - World War I: In Belgium, British and German troops clash for the first time in the war.
* 1922 - Michael Collins, Commander-in-Chief of the Irish Free State Army is shot dead during an Anti-Treaty ambush at Beal na mBlath, County Cork, during the Irish Civil War.
* 1926 - Gold discovered in Johannesburg, South Africa.
* 1941 - World War II: German troops reach Leningrad, leading to the siege of Leningrad.
* 1942 - World War II: Brazil declares war on the Axis powers (Germany, Italy and Japan).
* 1944 - World War II: Last transport of French Jews to concentration camps in Germany.
* 1944 - World War II: Thirty-two Spaniards & four French Maquis tackle a German column (1,300 men in 60 lorries, with 6 tanks & 2 self-propelled guns), at La Madeiline, France. Three Maquis are wounded, with 110 Germans killed and 200 wounded.
* 1944 - World War II: Romania captured by the Soviet Union.
* 1950 - Althea Gibson becomes the first black competitor in international tennis.
* 1952 - The penal colony on Devil's Island is permanently closed.
* 1962 - An attempt to assassinate French president Charles de Gaulle fails.
* 1962 - The NS Savannah, the world's first nuclear-powered cargo ship, completes its maiden voyage.
* 1963 - Joe Walker in X-15 test plane reaches altitude of 106 km (67 miles).
* 1964 - Match Of The Day hits the air on BBC Two.
* 1966 - Labor movements NFWA and AWOC merge to become the United Farm Workers Organizing Committee (UFWOC), predecessor of the United Farm Workers.
* 1968 - Pope Paul VI arrives in Bogotá, Colombia. It is the first visit of a pope to Latin America.
* 1972 - Rhodesia is expelled by the IOC for its racist policies.
* 1973 - U.S. President Richard Nixon names Henry Kissinger as Secretary of State.
* 1978 - The Frente Sandinista de Liberacion or FSLN occupies national palace in Nicaragua.
* 1988 - The Perth Mint issues the first platinum coin, the koala.
* 1989 - The first ring of Neptune is discovered.
* 1989 - Nolan Ryan strikes out Rickey Henderson to become the first Major League Baseball pitcher to record 5,000 strikeouts.
* 1992 - FBI HRT sniper Lon Horiuchi shoots and kills Vicki Weaver during an 11-day siege at her home at Ruby Ridge, Idaho.
* 2003 - Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore was suspended after refusing to comply with a federal court order to remove a rock inscribed with the Ten Commandments from the lobby of the Alabama Supreme Court building.
* 2004 - A version of The Scream and Madonna, two paintings by Edvard Munch, are stolen at gunpoint from a museum in Oslo, Norway.
* 2006 - Pulkovo Airlines Flight 612 crashes, killing 170 people.

[edit] Births

* 1601 - Georges de Scudéry, French writer (d. 1667)
* 1624 - Jean Renaud de Segrais, French writer (d. 1701)
* 1647 - Denis Papin, French physicist and inventor (d. c. 1712)
* 1679 - Pierre Guérin de Tencin, French cardinal (d. 1758)
* 1760 - Pope Leo XII (d. 1829)
* 1764 - Charles Percier, French architect (d. 1838)
* 1771 - Henry Maudslay, English inventor (d. 1831)
* 1779 - James Kirke Paulding, American author (d. 1860)
* 1800 - William S. Harney, U.S. general (d. 1889)
* 1800 - Samuel David Luzzatto, Italian-Jewish scholar (d. 1865)
* 1811 - William Kelly, American inventor (d. 1888)
* 1834 - Samuel Pierpont Langley, American astronomer (d. 1906)
* 1836 - Archibald MacNeal Willard, American artist (d. 1918)
* 1848 - Melville E. Stone, American newspaper publisher (d. 1929)
* 1854 - Milan I, King of Serbia (d. 1901)
* 1860 - Paul Gottlieb Nipkow, German inventor (d. 1940)
* 1862 - Claude Debussy, French composer (d. 1918)
* 1867 - Maximilian Bircher-Benner, Swiss physician and nutritionist (d. 1939)
* 1873 - Alexander Bogdanov, Russian physician and philosopher (d. 1928)
* 1874 - Max Scheler, German philosopher (d. 1928)
* 1880 - George Herriman, American cartoonist (d. 1944)
* 1887 - Lutz Graf Schwerin von Krosigk, German minister of finance (d. 1977)
* 1891 - Jacques Lipchitz, Lithuanian-born American sculptor (d. 1973)
* 1893 - Dorothy Parker, American writer (d. 1967)
* 1893 - Wilfred Kitching, British Salvation Army general (d. 1977)
* 1900 - Sergei Ozhegov, Russian lexicographer (d. 1964)
* 1902 - Leni Riefenstahl, German film director (d. 2003)
* 1902 - Thomas Pelly, American politician (d. 1973)
* 1904 - Deng Xiaoping, Premier of the People's Republic of China (d. 1997)
* 1908 - Henri Cartier-Bresson, French photographer (d. 2004)
* 1909 - Julius J. Epstein, American screenwriter (d. 2000)
* 1909 - Mel Hein, American football player (d. 1992)
* 1909 - Lucille Ricksen, American actress (d. 1925)
* 1913 - Bruno Pontecorvo, Italian physicist (d. 1993)
* 1915 - Hugh Paddick, British actor (d. 2000)
* 1915 - Edward Szczepanik, former Polish Prime Minister (d. 2005)
* 1917 - John Lee Hooker, American guitarist and singer (d. 2001)
* 1918 - Mary McGrory, American journalist (d. 2004)
* 1920 - Ray Bradbury, American writer
* 1920 - Denton Cooley, American heart surgeon
* 1922 - Micheline Presle, French actress
* 1928 - Karlheinz Stockhausen, German composer
* 1930 - Gilmar, Brazilian football player
* 1932 - Gerald P. Carr, American astronaut
* 1934 - Norman Schwarzkopf, U.S. general
* 1935 - E. Annie Proulx, American author
* 1936 - Dale Hawkins, American singer and songwriter
* 1938 - Paul Maguire, American football commentator
* 1939 - George Reinholt, American actor
* 1939 - Carl Yastrzemski, baseball player
* 1940 - Valerie Harper, American actress
* 1940 - Bill McCartney, former college football coach
* 1941 - Bill Parcells, American football coach
* 1945 - Ron Dante, American songwriter and record producer (The Archies)
* 1945 - Erol Gelenbe, Turkish computer scientist, electrical engineer and applied mathematician
* 1947 - Cindy Williams, American actress
* 1947 - Donna Godchaux, singer (Grateful Dead)
* 1949 - Diana Nyad, American swimmer, wold record holder
* 1949 - Doug Bair, baseball player
* 1949 - Alfred Musema, Rwandan genocidaire
* 1950 - Ray Burris, baseball player
* 1953 - Paul Ellering, American wrestling manager
* 1955 - Will Shetterly, writer
* 1955 - Chiranjeevi, Telugu film actor
* 1956 - Paul Molitor, baseball player
* 1957 - Steve Davis, English snooker player
* 1958 - Colm Feore, American-born actor
* 1958 - Lane Huffman, American professional wrestler
* 1958 - Vernon Reid, American musician (Living Colour)
* 1959 - Juan Croucier, American musician
* 1959 - Pia Gjellerup, Danish politician
* 1961 - Roland Orzabal, British musician (Tears for Fears)
* 1961 - Debbi Peterson, American singer (The Bangles).
* 1963 - Tori Amos, American singer/songwriter
* 1963 - Terry Catledge, American basketball player
* 1964 - Mats Wilander, Swedish tennis player
* 1965 - Tom Gibis, American voice actor
* 1966 - GZA, American rapper
* 1966 - Eric Andolsek, American football player (d. 1992)
* 1967 - Layne Staley, American musician (Alice in Chains) (d. 2002)
* 1967 - Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje, British actor
* 1967 - Yukiko Okada, Japanese singer (d. 1986)
* 1967 - Alfred Gough, American screenwriter
* 1968 - Paul Colman, Australian guitarist (Newsboys)
* 1968 - Alexander Mostovoi, Russian footballer
* 1968 - Horst Skoff, Austrian tennis player
* 1970 - Charlie Connelly, English writer
* 1970 - Giada De Laurentiis, chef and television host
* 1971 - Richard Armitage, English actor
* 1972 - Steve Kline, baseball player
* 1972 - Okkert Brits, South African pole vaulter
* 1972 - Max Wilson, Brazilian racing driver
* 1973 - Howie Dorough, American singer (Backstreet Boys)
* 1975 - Clint Bolton, Australian footballer
* 1975 - Sheree Murphy, British actress
* 1975 - Rodrigo Santoro, Brazilian actor
* 1977 - Heiðar Helguson, Icelandic footballer
* 1977 - Keren Cytter, artist, filmmaker, and writer
* 1978 - Jeff Stinco, Canadian musician (Simple Plan)
* 1980 - Christi Shake, American model and actress
* 1981 - Alex Holmes, American football player
* 1982 - Themistoklis Diakidis, Greek high jumper
* 1983 - Theo Bos, Dutch cyclist
* 1983 - Laura Breckenridge, American actress

[edit] Deaths

* 408 - Stilicho, Roman general (b. 359)
* 1155 - Konoe, Emperor of Japan (b. 1139)
* 1188 - Ferdinand II, King of Leon (b. 1137)
* 1241 - Gregory IX, Italian religious leader, 178th Pope (b. c. 1143)
* 1280 - Nicholas III, Italian religious leader, 188th Pope (b. c. 1216)
* 1304 - John II, Count of Hainaut (b. 1247)
* 1350 - Philip VI, King of France (b. 1293)
* 1485 - Richard III, King of England (b. 1452)
* 1553 - John Dudley, English admiral and politician (b. 1501)
* 1572 - Thomas Percy, Earl of Northumberland (b. 1528)
* 1584 - Jan Kochanowski, Polish writer (b. 1530)
* 1599 - Beatrice Cenci, Italian noblewoman (b. 1577)
* 1599 - Luca Marenzio, Italian composer (b. c. 1553)
* 1607 - Bartholomew Gosnold, English explorer and privateer (b. 1572)
* 1609 - Maharal of Prague, Jewish mystic and philosopher (b. 1525)
* 1652 - Jacob De la Gardie, Swedish soldier and statesman (b. 1583)
* 1680 - John George II, Elector of Saxony (b. 1613)
* 1701 - John Granville, 1st Earl of Bath, English royalist statesman (b. 1628)
* 1711 - Louis François, duc de Boufflers, French marshal (b. 1644)
* 1752 - William Whiston, English mathematician (b. 1667)
* 1773 - George Lyttelton, English writer and politician (b. 1709)
* 1793 - Louis, 4th duc de Noailles, Marshal of France (b. 1713)
* 1797 - Dagobert Sigmund von Wurmser, Alsatian-born Austrian general (b. 1724)
* 1806 - Jean-Honoré Fragonard, French artist (b. 1732)
* 1818 - Warren Hastings, British Governor-General of India (b. 1732)
* 1828 - Franz Joseph Gall, Austrian neuroscientist (b. 1758)
* 1850 - Nikolaus Lenau, Austrian poet (b. 1802)
* 1861 - Xianfeng, Emperor of China (b. 1831)
* 1891 - Jan Neruda, Czech author (b. 1834)
* 1903 - Robert Gascoyne-Cecil, 3rd Marquess of Salisbury, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom (b. 1830)
* 1915 - Giacomo Radini-Tedeschi bishop of Bergamo
* 1918 - Korbinian Brodmann, German neurologist (b. 1868)
* 1922 - Michael Collins, Irish revolutionary (b. 1890)
* 1926 - Charles W. Eliot, American President of Harvard University (b. 1834)
* 1940 - Sir Oliver Joseph Lodge, English physicist, spiritualist, pioneer in wireless telegraphy (b. 1851)
* 1942 - Michel Fokine, Russian choreographer and dancer (b. 1880)
* 1950 - Kirk Bryan, American geologist (b. 1888)
* 1953 - Jim Tabor, baseball player (b. 1916)
* 1958 - Roger Martin du Gard, French writer, Nobel Prize laureate (b. 1881)
* 1965 - Ellen Church, First American airline stewardess (b. 1904)
* 1967 - Gregory Goodwin Pincus, American endocrinologist (b. 1903)
* 1974 - Jacob Bronowski, Polish-English mathematician & TV presenter (b. 1908)
* 1976 - Juscelino Kubitschek de Oliveira, President of Brazil (b. 1902)
* 1976 - Gina Bachauer, Greek pianist (b. 1913)
* 1977 - Sebastian Cabot, English-born actor (b. 1918)
* 1978 - Jomo Kenyatta, first Prime Minister of Kenya (b. c. 1892)
* 1979 - James T. Farrell, American novelist (b. 1904)
* 1980 - James Smith McDonnell, American aircraft manufacturer (b. 1899)
* 1989 - Huey P. Newton, American activist (b. 1942)
* 1991 - Colleen Dewhurst, Canadian actress (b. 1924)
* 2003 - Arnold Gerschwiler, Swiss-born figure skating trainer (b. 1914)
* 2003 - Generosa Ammon, widow of Ted Ammon (b. 1956)
* 2003 - Imperio Argentina, Argentinian singer and actress (b. 1906)
* 2004 - Konstantin Aseev, Russian chess player (b. 1960)
* 2005 - Luc Ferrari, French composer (b. 1929)
* 2006 - Bruce Gary, American rock drummer, producer (The Knack) (b. 1951)

[edit] Holidays and observances

* RC feasts - Mary queen of angels, Immaculate Heart
* 2006 - Islamic celebration of the night flight of Muhammad on the winged horse Buraq, first to "the farthest mosque," usually identified with Jerusalem, and then to heaven and back (c.f., Quran 17:1)

I had no idea Bruce Gary died. MY SHARONA!! Now that truly is a tragedy worth mourning.

Roderick · Veteran Member

Hmmmm........
A post for SJ has been started on the main page.

Most alcoholics don't think they are like most alcoholics. Most alcoholics are a legend in their own mind. Imagine that for a minute. A person who gets wasted on alcohol specializing in these great, magnificent ideas and thoughts. Having these crystal clear visions of the future for all mankind. Wow!! Powerful stuff.

Whether you die when the world ends on August 22, on in 60-65 years from now is the flap of a sparrows wing in comparison to eternity.

Also, I gotta mention this because it concerns me. This thread is partially titled, "I recovered from 3 years of alcoholism"
I have not touched a drink in 24 years, and I have not recovered. I am a recovering alcoholic which is the best I will ever hope for, and it is good enough.
You are bright enough to consider what I am about to ask you. Let's just get to the basics.
Other than being hospitalized and put on drugs for delirium tremens, Have you had other problems with alocohol, like:
getting into fights
problems with the law
loss of money
blackouts
Driving While Intoxicated
saying things you wish you hadn't
irresponsibility in general
bad breath

This is a short list, but most alcoholics drinking 2 liters of hard liquor a week can identify. You know what I'm sayin?
Anyway.......I must say, your posts are entertaining. I am smiling right now. Oh, but you may not be trying to entertain me with the end of the world and all. Well, What can I say. I must not be like most alcoholics...........NOT....
Please bear with me while I tell you this funny story, or sick story, or sad, or whatever you percieve it to be.
I was in California, on the streets at about 30 years old or so. I wanted a break and to get rested up and cleaned up, so I checked into this recovery house that had a psychiatric staff and councellors. I checked in under an assumed name with fake ID and said I had some physical ailment and tried to get drugs. Ha Ha!! this is the good part, I checked in with a fake identity and a fake reason. Only the disease was real, and I didn't even realize it til later when I surrendered, and admitted that I was powerless over alcohol.

Go to AA, and get with the program. You are a bright fellow. I can tell by your writings and your sense of humor. Now act like it. Once you learn to control yourself you will find that you can control the things that happen to you.
Good Luck, Roderick

TLH · MIP Old Timer

I dont mean to be too terribly harsh, but it sounds like your mind was made up before you ever posted, chicken little. That being said- why is it so important that people understand you? And do you think that because you believe something that makes it by default true?

What I find hard to believe is that someone as astute and socially aware as yourself can read all these signs and make the deduction that the end is near, yet you have yet to put two and two together about why powers that be want you to be comfortably numb. If I were you, I'd start with that. Dont think for a second that the booze corps dont have a hand in running the country alongside Medicine and Insurance, Tobacco, Petrol and Automobiles. It may not be a full blown cartel but those big money people lobby and they dont do it to benefit you or I- they do it to benefit themselves. If you are as perceptive as you have been pickled, just think how smart you'd be with a keen edge.

My advice is cut out the alcohol for 90 days and eat lots of fresh fruit and vegetables, easy on the red meat and lean towards chicken and fish. I cut out caffeine for a month of the year and go all herbal, fresh fruit and lots of water and fresh fruit juices and it brings me to a level that is beyond articulation. I literally buzz from the sugar in Carrot juice at the end of that month- and my brain gets all in tune and feels like a fucking dynamo. Now that's what I'd advise to a young guy that wants to start working on some inherent truths.

I'd also disconnect your cable and cancel any magazine and newspaper subscriptions. There are very few real journalists left and whatever makes it into the media has already been sanitized by the cartel. Put your ear to the ground and Listen. kill you television. Throw open the hatch and breath real oxygen. The truth is out there.

TLH · MIP Old Timer

Actually what I meant was "why is it so important to you that everyone understand about August 22nd, 2006?" Because I think pretty much everyone here understands to one degree or another what it's like to be an alcoholic and some of the things you go through, but it doesn't strike me that you're interested in that information- unless it's in some way relevant to a scare on August 22, 2006.

And now my other question: did anything actually happen? I cant find anything.

Anyhow- I've talked about my plane wreck before and hate to be like a broken record but I really think the only one solid event I can come up with is that. It was a life threatening situation in which I thought I was going to die, and then I didn't die. After that things got a little screwy and I drank a lot. Then I stopped drinking and things got better. Since the crash and what I saw at the moment as a near death experience I appreciate life a bit more and dont squander it doing stupid stuff so much. Time is imminent- you can stop moving forward but time will roll right on by and keep going.

Not to say that the plane wreck was the same as what you're talking about, but rather saying that this is probably the closest thing to that I've had to deal with prior to getting sober (or any other time, actually).

I don't see an enormous difference, however, between this August 22 deal and all of the other impending idiocy that the governments of countries have done to each other as long as I've lived. I think maybe Hitler was the last big "invading conqueror" and the next big thing like that will result in a wormy little megalomaniac pushing a button and shortly thereafter life as we know it ceasing to exist. But I've been aware of that since I've been aware of politics (around 80 or so) and so to me each new scare is just that- another scare.

September 11 made me quite uncomfortable and gave me a lot of cause for reflection. How did you react to Sept 11? I'm seriously curious.

-- Edited by TLH at 23:52, 2007-04-03

miller2 · Senior Member

OK, cripes..
Why is it so hard for you to understand.. that WE understand YOU?
What, your the sickest man on this planet or what? Since you have a flare for
text communication, here's a lil something I wrote once.

The Practical Joke

Born
a spark to tiny to see,
across moist gray matter,
of cranial sea.
To the ends of red nerve
under loose skin,
across the scalp and back again
growing but little, becoming a thought,
no pattern,
quite meaningless,
and sensible not.
Erupting now, deep within
imagination and memory
doth webs tangled spin.
back to the brain
with reckless pursuit
for pieces of sanity
how ever minute.
sparks collide with sparks.
Nerve endings sear
the unfinished thought
becomes unfounded fear
a thousand thistle bounce
in my head
skin unfolds
turning outwardly red
gasping, clutching, heaving
silently screaming
brief, but a second
then suddenly leaving.
And the cranium chuckles
at the unpractical panic

I might be kinda sick too huh??? Im clean and sober two years now. So tell me, just what are you trying to convince us all of here?
Now... Here is the one thing youve said so far that just really should convince ANYONE that they need to get some real help. Please read this carefully now....

"if it is true that we have a very limited time on this Earth we should make the most of it and enjoy it to the most as well as help others out as much as we can."

"what if the most enjoyment out of life was getting a buzz and playing video games?"

"how does drinking impair my ability to help others?"

If you were in a room with me Id tell you to quit whinning . There are folks out there that really do want a better way of life. If I see a post from you that reads " I just picked up my 90 day chip" I will read it.

miller2 · Senior Member

they were convinced they were going to die in a horrific way and had over a week to contemplate it

Show of hands?

sorry.... Im done. lol I need to meditate.

-- Edited by miller2 at 01:47, 2007-04-05

-- Edited by miller2 at 01:50, 2007-04-05

Wren · MIP Old Timer

Hi Miller. I have a nice chant tape I'll make you a copy of. My sandlewood is burning as I type.......share the candle? LOL. wren

"...and if everything I touch today
is gone tomorrow,
At least I will have touched it, and memories
never die"....

TLH · MIP Old Timer

Taoists tend to espouse an idea that the universe is just one thing, and that we are infintesimile parts in a greater vessel. So in Taoist thinking, if you harm someone else you're actually just harming yourself. There's quite a bit of merit to that line of thinking. I'm actually thinking of taking up some offers I've had for a series of meditation classes taught at a buddhist mission near my home, mostly because I seem to learn from books more than anything and it tends to be a steep learning curve. Looking forward to that.

Also just put down (in this order) My friend Leanord (I really liked this book once I got past his quirky writing style), Borstal Boy by Brendan Behan (Probably a bit of a snooze unless you're into Irish literature and history), The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich (Great book- I cant believe it took me this long to read it. I recall it being on a shelf at my dad's place when I was a kid and I know my kid brother read that particular copy when he was 17. Very complicated war and if Hitler had not been so greedy and had listened to his generals we would be living in an entirely different world and the British would be speaking German. Tough read for me.), and now just last night I opened The Wisdom of Forgiveness by the Dalai Lama and Victor Chan. I have really liked a lot of the Dalai Lama's stuff and it never fails to put me in a particularly humble frame of mind.

And it made me think that in order for the various world situations to change the drastic directions that it they are taking people need to learn to think differently. People need to be educated at a very young age to sincerely care for one another and to be humble and to work together towards common goals that will better all of mankind rather than just reap profits for themselves. I know this sounds like a eutopian fantasy but I'm thinking along some really long term lines, and I'm merely postulating anyhow.

But really, I dont believe these things will happen until we make a breakthrough that lets us use parts of our brain that have thus far remained dormant and untapped. I look at the media and wonder at the type of stuff the people are demanding and I really am disappointed. I look at people like Ghandi and Mother Theresa and the Dalai Lama and I wonder at my own inability to attain that kind of selflessness and I have to guess that it is at least in part because I just wasn't brought up that way. And I mean- really- my parents were very caring people and intelligent and compassionate- but they relied heavily upon sarcasm and wry wit to bail them out of intimate or affectionate situations, and I believe this was unwittingly passed on to me.

But I also think that every disaster is an opportunity, and maybe if things get seriously bad (I actually believe they are seriously grave right now) people will begin to wake up. When the petrol runs out and middle class America suddenly finds themselves without adequate budweiser and Playstation and Paris Hilton then perhaps people will begin to think again and they may get the chance to regain a grasp of what is really important.

One other note- and I'm a staunch part time agnostic- but perhaps the christians are right and you just have to trust in god and live the best you can and have a little faith, and maybe it all will eventually mean something.

Just because they cant prove to you that it is true doesn't mean that you can prove to them that it isn't.

Time alone, only time will tell.

TLH · MIP Old Timer

Oh- and I doubt being inebriated will make things better.

Laura · Senior Member

I have a couple of questions for you, Pookistan.

What do you consider ignorant?

What do you consider complacent?

TLH · MIP Old Timer

a) there's a long line of madmen waiting to take the place of whoever is removed from that country's seat of power power.

b) No matter who is in office, the same cabal of people generally have the president's ear from one administration to the next.

c) Maybe some of the people who you are labeling complacent merely have the wisdom to realise that this has gone on since time began in one guise or another and killing one more human isn't going to fix it. Ghandi wasn't a fighter- he was determined and tenacious and wise enough to know that in a fight, no one wins. Martin Luther King wasn't a fighter.

I think maybe you're confused over what you personally should do about this thing that's plaguing you? I personally am very concerned about the future of humanity. I have two children and I'd like to see them avoid the violence and horror of war. But I cant jump up and go off on a mission to kill some guy, leaving them without anyone to take care of them and to make sure they're in bed at night and loved and fed and clothed and educated. I also cant afford the luxury of burying my head in the sand and freaking out, shutting down and going into full panic mode for the very same reason. No- I have to keep going and the most I can do is try to be the best person I can be.

This idea of killing the figurehead really exemplifies the need for an entirely different way of thinking. The President is just a figurehead. He is kept in check somewhat by the cabinet around him, by congress and more to the point by the people who put him in office- the ones who financed his campaign and agreed that he should be on the ballot and should get the money necessary to wage a full scale presidential campaign. If that figurhead goes down, they most certainly already have inroads with the back-up.

Democracy has never had any room for saints. And so we will continue along this muddled, ass backwards course as we have since this country was founded (and since governments began.) The best of intentions thus far have always been circumvented by alternative agendas and the personal motives of men. Greed and power come into play heavily. Until we learn to think of humanity as a whole this will continue. Until Compassion and love are taught to children as more than just a token effort they will grow up to be the same as those that came before them. Until children are taught that confrontation and agression are not proper problem solving tools they will continue to grow up to be presidents and generals and corporate raiders and criminals.

I dont think people are inherently wicked, bad or violent. I think it's something quietly passed on from one generation to the next. I think if a person were completely satisfied with life and their-self and had done the things they felt they needed to do in life and were comfortable in their spirituality and comfortable that they've been a good and fair person then they wont be too terribly upset with what's going on with governments and armies. It will be upsetting but they'll continue on.

And I dont think drinking will make it any better.

-- Edited by TLH at 12:53, 2007-04-05

Sobrietyspell · MIP Old Timer

Hi Pooky, Nice to 'meet you', it would seem you've become quite attached to the MIP message board! Is this because you're getting something of what you've been looking for? It seems to me that everyone here is well aware of the awful things that go on & have gone on for time & time. We may not be as 'well informed' of specific instances as you've engrossed yourself in & I think that's because everyone is trying hard to concentrate on the things they can have an immediate influence on like ourselves & our families. It takes an eventual process for our defences to come down, our pride & our arrogance & to gain some humility. You seem to be caught up with 'the state of current affairs' & those 'threats' to our very lives but you don't speak in any way of what you're prepared to do about it. Are you simply scared or are you wanting to have some kind of responsible out/input? If you want to help the situation then getting sober is pertinently the best thing you can do for yourself & anyone you might help. It clears your thinking, helps you emotionally & puts you in a much fitter state to deal with anything life can put before you. Are you suffering an anti-climactic shock because nothing has happened as yet to destroy our existance? Those in power simply want to stay in power & to prosper as much as possible no matter what the cost. It doesn't seem to me to be in anyone's interest to destroy that which they could conquer. So personally I'm not 'too' worried. Maybe I should be but what can I do about it? The Planet is Massive with Millions of people, most of whom are suffering in one way or another. Your comments on a more basic level seem to come from a place of despondant self-pity & I'm no expert, forgive if that seems judgemental. I'm coming from a place of one who has suffered alcoholism also. You're not doing yourself any greater service to be justifying your own illness on the state of world affairs. That's only arrogance at it's peak. And I say that with kindness. I have a friend who is pasionate in what's going on politically & it isolates him. He can reach out & talk with those who are prepared to make efforts towards helping the situation but it doesn't do when he allows it to disturb his own inner-peace & anger towards those who only seem ignorant & interested in themselves & their lives. Maybe this is playing into the hands of those who seek to control us all from on high but at our grass~roots level what is the first thing we can do to help anybody? Help ourselves first & in doing so become better adept at helping others. Sobriety is the first key in this. If you really want to overcome your issues with this whole scenario, go to some meetings, get to know what your own issue are, learn about yourself & how you can change and then Maybe then, you'll be in a position to deal with all of your reactions to this or admit that you powerless. Being powerless doesn't mean you can't help.
If you really want to help then think on this ~

"We've realised that if we truly open up and turn our focus to our unexplored potential as human beings, it is not a matter of one group telling another it must change, trying to force social evolution, it is a matter of each person looking within, transforming within, and then, by collective effect, transforming society..."

~ James Redfield (The Celestine Prophecy)

I wish you all the best in finding some inner peace. I don't think you're going to find it in video games. Don't isolate yourself, come forward & let's get to know you. You don't have to blind us with science to prove how worthy you are, although it is very entertaining ;) Thanks for listening, Pooky, I hope you keep coming back Danielle x

TLH · MIP Old Timer

I dont think anyone is frustrated with your world view. I dont think anyone is frustrated at all. I'm fairly certain everyone here has seen it enough times to know what it is.

You've had no negative impact from your alcoholism? Give it time, my boy- you're young yet.

I dont think anyone here thinks alcohol or the use of alcohol is evil. If there's one thing AA is really good at, it's to show you that some people can drink and some people cant. There doesn't seem to be a lot of middle ground.

"The whole absolute sobriety overtone"... that's a funny statement. We're alcoholics. When we drink we drink it all or we drink for weeks or months or year or we do both. That's what alcoholics do. We cant drink. We drink and there's a very good chance that we die. No bullshit.

Some really good solid signs that you could be an alcoholic are like when you ask people questions about alcoholism with your own actions in mind, when you count drinks or days between, and above all when you make excuses for why you drink. Normals dont have to make excuses for drinking. Only people that know deep inside that they have an issue with it feel that guilt and have to make excuses for it. But I guess there's no solid never-fail rule except for your own judgement, since no one but you can make you do anything.

But my friend, I have given you all of the information I have. You keep asking questions I dont have the answers to. I think only you have the answer and if you're anything like me you probably are moving the parts around into different configurations in your head and either you figure it out yourself or you grit your teeth swallow your pride and do the hardest thing ever and admit you're human and fallible and you ask for help. I'll keep posting but I dont think I have the answer- I think that probably only you do.

-- Edited by TLH at 03:13, 2007-04-06

sheilasdad · Senior Member

All I know is that if I drink, MY world will end. Also, I've got a serious problem with this statement:

"And I'm glad nobody's argued Arby's isn't the king of fast-food because that's simply a debate ya' can't win..."

KFC is the best. Hands down. You can't convince me otherwise. There's no room for debate. Anyway... I'm off to do some research on my dissertation topic. These posts are way too heavy and intellectual for me.

Mike

Sobrietyspell · MIP Old Timer

Hi Pooky, wb, x Thanks for getting down & honest with your concerns regarding alcohol. It's a little more along the lines of what we're dealing with here! I think the whole aspect of control drinking here in Liverpool is that you have to be at least 6months sober in order to try it & this will be in collaboration with Cognitive Behavioural Therapy. I've just celebrated 6months sobriety & a friend who had been 8years sober & then decided to try controlled drinking said that if I felt I wanted to then I'd be in the perfect position to do so. That was on 17thMarch07, the day before my 30th birthday & I was really in a quandry on whether to lapse or not. I turned 6months on April Fool's Day & thankfully was able to do my first chair as I did choose to stay sober! The fact of the matter is that when I first gave up drinking (without AA) & then started slipping 2months later (when I joined AA!) on my 4th & last fornightly slip I realised 'Hey, I'm not actually sober here!' One of the reasons for total abstinence is that we realise we have excessive appetites, that 'one drink is too many & a thousand never enough', I didn't like to be conscious of how much I'm drinking when I drank, controlling it would seem like a pain in the ass & besides this, alcohol affected me emotionally. It contributed to paranoia & anxiety & a lack of concentration. After 6months sobriety, I genuinely didn't want any of those problems back. You're already speaking about withdrawals, which I didn't have. I definitely feel the health benefits in not drinking. Hopefully you'll only have to detox once. The problem with alcoholism is that it's progressive & I wouldn't wish for your situation to be any worse. I'm sure someone here will be able to give you a bit more information about their experiences. I don't know about the 'extra whatevers' could be an interesting theory. Our bodies don't seem to recover fully from the effects of alcohol, as soon as we take a drink, it pretty much picks up where we left off very quickly! Would you be interested in attending any face to face meetings, Pooky? You're at a crucial point in your process & will need all the help in the world to get you through the next few days. Everyone of us sober~vibers know that to risk a lapse risks relapse & the obsession with drink returning that we wouldn't return to the rooms! We'd stay out there until we hit another rockbottom. I couldn't stay sober if I didn't attend meetings. Temptation would simply prove too hard. Alcohol ~ cunning, baffling & powerful. Give it a go, Pooky. Try some meetings & 6months sobriety in those contexts & then see how you feel about drinking. Give yourself a good chance first. As for your world view, you'll come to understand & deal with that in different ways as you develop in your person. I've grown so much with my time in AA & I'm learning to deal with a lot of things. It's great to share. Keep coming back Pooky, Danielle :)

TLH · MIP Old Timer

http://www.recoveryconnection.org/alcoholism_test/

http://www2.recoverycentral.org/tests/testalco.html

http://www.alcoholscreening.org/

I couldn't actually find the long version.

I know I already said this but I'll say it again: I'd look into a psychologist that specializes in substance abuse.

-- Edited by TLH at 18:05, 2007-04-06

-- Edited by TLH at 18:10, 2007-04-06

-- Edited by TLH at 18:10, 2007-04-06

miller2 · Senior Member

"Anyways, my questions are pretty specific but if anyone knows the answers I'd appreciate 'em. Like I said, the original plan wasn't to quit entirely though I'm giving complete sobriety a chance - I'd like to know the facts about "relapse" and if they are mostly psychological in nature I may be able to overcome them..."

Since you asked, and this is a sensible question, I feel compelled to give an awnser.
Alcoholism is
1. physical
2. psycological
3. and spiritual

Any cure must address all three.
Medical profesionals... well of the hundreds and hundreds of hours of schooling they go through... they spend about two days studying the disease of alcoholism.

psycologists know even less of the disease.
pastors, priests, rabis... will not cure the disease.
There is no pill, no shot...

making rules, switching types or brands, or drinking in moderation will not work.

for three million alcoholics world wide, the program of AA has worked.

cooncatbob · Senior Member

I haven't posted on this topic because frankly it makes my head hurt, doom and gloom and the end of the world as we know it. I for one have enough on my plate without taking on the fate of mankind.
About once a week someone shows up here trying to rationalise their continued drinking, and trying to get the members of this forum to agree with them. You certainly are more inventive then most of them and you're sure full of yourself concerning your short period of sobriety. You don't feel a sense of accomplishment because frank you haven't really accomplished anything yet. Lots of folks quit for a period of time then rationalize that since they quit so easily they must not be alcoholic and therefore can drink. There's a difference between abstinence and recovery, and while you have some of the former you have none of the latter.
There's a saying in recovery, "You can be too smart for recovery, but you can't be too dumb" I perceive that you might be too smart and you think too much. Good luck, your going to need it.
Bob.

-- Edited by cooncatbob at 01:37, 2007-04-08

TLH · MIP Old Timer

POOKISTAN wrote:
I have no idea if it has any significance to the religion of the psychos who believe they go to "heaven" for killing people...

No- the IRA are on another cease fire. biggrin

TLH · MIP Old Timer

Meetings are like $2. Just sayin'.

I like me some GTA now and again- freaks me out how endless the video games have become. I remember a day when Pong was incredible. Then Asteroids and Space Invaders. After that Frogger and Battlezone and Joust were incredible. Then Castle Wolfenstein blew doors on everything. Today none of those really would even show up on the radar. Fricken incredible.

Just a thought I had while blasting through my busy day: While a prisoner in the concentration camp Theresienstadt Viktor Frankl began to notice that while everyone was subjected to similar nastiness in the concentration camp some people succombed to it and some rose above it. This lead him to a theory that for every stimuli you experience you can choose your reaction. In that idea I see your situation, and you essentially have many choices of how you respond. Among the myriad possibilities you can choose a flight response like diving into the bottle or you can look at the frailty of human existence and appreciate life all the more for it's ability to survive amidst such tenuous conditions.

That Frankl book has a lot of good wisdom in it.

Frankl recalls what he has seen and observed while in several Nazi camps. He then goes on to draw conclusions about life and human nature. Frankl identifies three psychological reactions experienced by all inmates to one degree or another: (1) shock during the initial admission phase to the camp, (2) apathy after becoming accustomed to camp existence, in which the inmate values only that which helps himself or others survive, and (3) reactions of depersonalization, moral deformity, bitterness, and disillusionment after being liberated.

Frankl concludes that the meaning of life is found in every moment of living; life never ceases to have meaning, even in suffering and death. In a group therapy session during a mass fast inflicted on the camp's inmates trying to protect an anonymous fellow inmate from fatal retribution by authorities, Frankl offered the thought that for everyone in a dire condition there is someone looking down, a friend, family member, or even a God, who would expect not to be disappointed. Frankl concludes from his experience that a prisoner's psychological reactions are not solely the result of the conditions of his life, but also from the freedom of choice he always has even in severe suffering. The inner hold a prisoner has on his spiritual self relies on having a faith in the future, and that once a prisoner loses that faith, he is doomed.

He also concludes that there are only two races of men, decent men and indecent. No society is free of either of them, and thus there were "decent" Nazi guards and "indecent" prisoners, most notably the capo who would torture and abuse their fellow prisoners for personal gain.

His concluding passage in Part One describes the psychological reaction of the inmates to their liberation. He recounts a decent friend who became immediately obsessed with dispensing the same violence in judgment of his abusers that they had inflicted on him. In their first foray outside their former prison, the prisoners realized that they could not comprehend pleasure. Flowers, sudden kindness by their former guards, and the reality of the freedom they had dreamed about for years were all surreal, unable to be grasped in their depersonalization. Even when he or she returned to "normal" life, a prisoner experienced bitterness that others were superficial and did not comprehend what he had gone through, then disillusionment when newfound freedom did not mean the end of unhappiness. As time passed, however, the prisoner's experience in a concentration camp finally became nothing more than a nightmare.

I had a really good Dalai Lama one too but now it slips my mind. Maybe it'll come back later. We'll see.