I don't want to argue, but I need help. I don't want to create a god or anything so that I can rely on it, but I would like some advice from people who don't believe in god and all that..
I am not trying to hurt your board, but there must be other people like me out there who are having a really hard time and just looking for help.
Hi! If you are looking for a fellow atheist or even agnostic, I am not the one to be advising you. However, I do know that AA can work for people of all beliefs, as I have seen it in action in all sorts of people and succeed.
The Big Book suggests that the alcoholic needs to come to believe in a power greater than him/herself. For many that is God, Jesus, Allah, the Great Spirit etc... I have also seen that higher power acknowledged as the power of the fellowship itself, reason, or even as the souls of those who have passed before (in this case, it was a friend who no longer believed in God, but did believe in his fallen comrades form the war in Iraq). Point being, if one can not stop drinking on his/her own, and most dyed in the wool alkis really can not, there has got to be some force bigger than the drinker that can - whatever the source of such additional power.
I hope that you can find something big enough to do the trick, as I know that this Program works - it literally saves lives (mine included). Bill W refers to a "higher power", period. Many call this HP God, but not all can or do, and still get the "miracle".
Feel free to privately message me if you want. I hope that this post has helped more than hindered.
I also, very sincerely, wish you the best in searching for your way, a way that works, out of the despair that is alcoholism.
When I came into AA ....the only thing I could grasp was Good Orderly Direction..and the fellowship, itself... as a Higher Power...and that worked for a long time..
And as a fellow freind on the board..pointed out a little while ago...It is not a must that we beleive in anything...the whole program is suggested....we individually take what we need for us..and leave the rest....and to each their own...
I know a few that are agnostic...and they are still sober...and dont seem to be having any more problems with living sober, than the rest of us do..:)
Im not a religious person..but I am spiritual guy...and thats just my thing..as I respect others beleifs...or whatever the case may be...and try to keep an open mind with it all...which Im sure not perfect at..and never will be..
You 2 have the best day yu can eh....
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"LOVE" devoid of self-gratification, is in essence, the will, to the greatest good...of another.
When I started with AA I was an atheist and I didn't want to be 'converted' either. But, after I had been back in AA for a little over four months I knew that something was working, guiding and helping me to achieve and maintain lasting sobriety. Something started to work for me that hadn't been working before.
I had tried over the years, with all of my will-power, to get and stay sober. But, nothing worked. I tried time and time again, with no luck. My drinking was just getting worse and worse, and I was losing more and more.
Now, I have come to believe that AA as a whole is a power greater than me. It is in AA that I found the wisdom, strength and courage to go one day at a time. I have HOPE and know that with continued effort I can lead a normal life. I see years of wonderful sobriety in the rooms of AA and I want that, too.
I now look upon the different meetings, and the people I meet there, as my Higher Power, as I am not really close to dealing with the concept of "God" in a church-defined way yet. I can always feel the healing and the serenity of a Higher Power at work in every single AA meeting that I attend. Meetings always make me feel more peaceful and positively focussed, even if I didn't realise that I needed that.
My God is a Group Of Drunks, but it works for me. Other folk use Good Orderly Direction.
I don't know if you are going to AA meetings, but if not, please, please give them a try. If you are, stick with going. It really will work.
Please keep posting and letting us know how it is going for you, won't you?
Take care,
Carol
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Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. ~Dr. Seuss
"As we understood",,, I like to meditate on that phrase. It implies that our understanding changes. It implies that we go with what we presently understand about a Higher Power. Also that we expect our understanding to continue to evolve in this area as in all other areas of our lives. My understanding of God has, and is, constantly changing - from no believe to a very general and vague belief, to believing in a wrathful, cold and judgemental God, and then to the possibility of a wise and loving God, and now , well, now I also kind of struggle moment by moment with my understanding.
I tried to believe in the group, and that worked for me to a certain extent. There is a collective wisdom in AA as it is intended to be, and as some groups faithfully try to share it. But I have been very hurt by groups that get dominated by certain people also, so believing in the group only goes to a limited extent for me.
I have found that the second best belief, that other people have shared with me, is to believe in Love - the Power of Love. Not just like, but that the cosmos has a Love force that keeps it all going. People who believe in Love believe in a positive, creative energy that comes into play in their lives and the lives of those around them.
I also meditate on 'came to believe', and there is a book with that title that we study at some of our meetings. Have I 'come' to believe yet? That is still in process for me. This is called the 'Hope' Step. Am I coming to believe that there is a Power that can bring me to sanity? It only requires being open to the possibility so that we don't block it off. Be open to the possibility that there is a Power greater than ourselves that could and would, if He were asked, bring us to sanity.
Do your best.
amanda
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do your best and God does the rest, a step at a time
Welcome to the site! I'm Tim, an alcoholic. I'm also an athiest. I believe there is nothing out there other than the balance of this beautiful cosmos in which we live.
The line Phil presented, "Good Orderly Direction", has finally done it for me. After more than a decade of trying to stay sober and not having a higher power to help along it seems to have finally worked. The Good Orderly Direction of the universe unfolding as it is and the movement, the natural "rythm", of which we are all a part, requires me to have an unaltered conciousness to be a true part of its majesty. (I just know there are some people out there who have come to know me and are now going to dislike me or think I'm totally psychotic!...Oh well...) I hope thoughts like that may be able to help you with your quest for sobriety. Do come back to this site and keep us posted as to your progress. I check in here first thing in the morning, last thing at night, and as many times during the day as I can......These good people have been a saving grace for me more than they can ever know. So join us...Tim
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"We posess the eyes through which the universe gazes with wonder upon its own majesty."
somethingawful wrote: I don't want to argue, but I need help. I don't want to create a god or anything so that I can rely on it, but I would like some advice from people who don't believe in god and all that.. I am not trying to hurt your board, but there must be other people like me out there who are having a really hard time and just looking for help.
I was able to define Him as My GOD, whatever it is and it works. All you have to do is surrender your will over to this power, whatever it is, and ask for guidance.
I wanted to add something to the mix here - I'm not an atheist, I'm spiritual, not keen on orginized religion. It used to really bug the crap out of me when people did the lords prayer at meetings because it didn't fit in with my idea of a higher power. I was ok with the Serenity Prayer because I liked the sentiment, but I was avoiding a meeting that I otherwise really liked because they did the lords prayer. One day I realized that nobody was twisting my arm to actually SAY the prayer along with everyone, and that since each group is autonomous and this is how they do things here, then I guess I am welcome to keep my own beleif regarding a power greater than myself, but I have to respect that that is how they do things. Likewise, there's a meeting local to me at a Pagan book shop that has entirely different prayers without any Judeo-Christian references, and that is how they do it there.
So basically while you keep your own spiritual identity, be it atheistic or bible bangingly christian, while you're attending a group, hang it at the door and accept that they have a way of doing things that works for the group as a whole, and work your program in the way that works best for you as a sober alcoholic.
I think the shares on this thread pretty well represent AA as a whole and how it allows us all to have our own perspectives on everything, while it gives us general guidelines. Tim, I think your perspective is very interesting and I thank you for sharing it. I don't see anything 'crazy' about it, and I think if anyone does call it 'crazy' it is just to put something down that they think is different than their view. Some people think everyone has to agree perfectly with their view. The idea you are sharing is positive and constructive. If it were negative and destructive then I would worry. And thank you, psycoktty for sharing your e,s&h on it. I really appreciate that view and will try to remember it.
Maybe a lot of us, as kids, weren't allowed to have freedom of thought to see things as children do, and to develop and grow and learn as children do. And then we drowned it all out and blocked our own selves from thinking things through, and learning and developing. We don't have to be clones of each other.
love in recovery,
amanda
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do your best and God does the rest, a step at a time
