“Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average.”
I would like to ask your opinions as to what sort of people are meant by the above statement.. who is he referring to here? To people with what sort of a mind-set is he referring? Do he mean that there are some people out there who just cannot “get” this programme and the life it means leading? Does he mean people who are weak? Or too mentally ill?
I am especially interested in what he means by “cannot” give themselves to the program. What does he mean by “cannot”? Who exactly are this group of people he is referring to?
I am beginning to think I am one of thes “unfortunates” but I don’t know why I am. What separates my thinking from people who stay sober in AA?
Just a discussion point. I never really understood what type of people he was referring to when mentioning and why there are some people who just "cannot" get the program. What is in their make-up or genes or whatever that means they "cannot" get it as opposed to "will not"
Niall, I could share a little bit.. Honesty for me is recognizing the true from the false. Attempting to prayerfully know the nature of a thing. Something to work on the rest of my life, and something I, of myself, would loose. I'll share a little of an experience I had, maybe someone else can more thoroughly answer your question. The fourth and fifth step for me was delivering a full and thorough accounting of my life- becoming accountable for the first time, leaving nothing in the darkness of my mind..- Reporting for duty Sir!, if you will. The part about picking out exact defects in any given incident gave me a hell of a lot of trouble. Maybe I was selfish, uh, maybe inconsiderate,.. Maybe i'll just check everything and 'ol (anon) will give me a gold star. I went over an incident again- A company I worked for provided me a camera to photograph roofs, towards every friday, out of drinking money, I would pawn it. Pick it back up every monday. Now this was muddled in with my entire sense of working for them- just a screwed up deal on both ends, they mistrusted and accused me of wrongdoing, wrongly, and that clouded my judgement trying to see where I had been wrong. A literal picture of that camera came to mind while struggling over that whole shindangle- and my brain lit up like a lightbulb. Dishonesty! My first character defect to clearly, unquestionably, and honestly recognize. The spiritual nature of my relationship with that good company and those wonderful people was poisoned and irreparably damaged by my dishonesty.
You see, this was a sucsessful, Hispanic, family run company, who had had previous problems with white employees. The picture of the damage I have a hand in is complex and deep, with far reaching and expanding implications... fruit, if you will.
For me, the last words in that paragraph, that you did not include, are the most important in the whole paragraph, they are the words of HOPE.
"There are those, too, who suffer form grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest."
Those words in the part of Chapter 5, BB, "How it Works", the ones that you put on the board were what I would describe as my own sheer will or tenacity to live, and AA demanded that I give up that same Will. That was was why a Therapist told me once, when I had told her, I was taking my drinking problem to Alcoholics Anonymous. She kind of looked worried, and said to me, "I think you are going to have a difficult time with that." When I asked her to explain what she meant, she stated, "Well you have survived, only by you own sheer will to survive, and AA, is going to Demand that you give that up." She was so accurate in that statement.
And in retrospect now I can see the problem more clearly, at least in my own story of Recovery, for when I had two consistent years in successfully not drinking one day at a time, I was diagnosed with rather severe PTSD, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder", and was told that it would take several years of treatment to Recover from this other Disorder. And many years it did take. Hynotherapy and Age Regression Work, I had vitually no memories of my first 18 years, other than the friends I had during that time. To put that history in a "Nutshell", I was raised in a severely mentally ill envirornment, and because it was more that I could pychologically handle, I dissociated the entire first half of my life.
The commitment to that work, so I would no longer be a person that suffered from PTSD, was where the last Part of that paragraph comes in, I was willing to do anything, and everything that was asked of me, to Recover from first Alcoholism, and then this second Diagnosis of PTSD. This is where that last paragraph comes in, and is what changed my life, this was the HOPE part for me.
It was a very long and difficult road, Niall, and today I see that long difficult Road back, as someone with such DEEP GRATITUDE to my Therapist, and to a Loving God, that was with me every step of the way. For in that work, and attending AA, daily, I finally was Released, from all those trauma memories, and the Raging Grip of Alcoholism, and, and found the person I was looking for, for so long, and that was me.
Some that are in the Program, are very Blessed that they can quit without Outside Help, for me that was NEVER going to be the case.
The "Ego" (Easing God Out) MUST be smashed, and we learn how to overcome our FEAR. (False Evidence, Appearing Real.)
This Program is not EASY for any of us, but it will ALWAYS remain SIMPLE.
Just so you know, that paragraph was the one that looked like it was ominous, and it is, but it was the paragraph that stumped me as well for so many years. You are not alone Niall, please try to just absorb that Fact. O.K.????, my dear friend.
Love and Hugs, and so, so good to see you here this morning, and that "Honest" sharing is how it starts.
I feel that I'm one of those who is hopless as well. I feel that I'm being honest with myself... maybe I'm not, but I think I am. I'm usually a very open, honest person, especially when I'm drinking lol But I feel hopeless, I feel that I'm not grasping the program like I should be, I guess I'm not or I wouldn't be out there again. Just letting you know you're not alone.
When I hear this passage read at the beginning of every meeting, I always think "those" are the ones who are so far gone on self that they "can not" see another way. "They" have run on self will, self centeredness, pride, and ego for so long that they can not grasp the concept that maybe someone else has a better way...Just plain stubborn, as my granny would have said......Difficult to put into words, but gave it my best shot.
Lisa, hun, you are not one of "those" I know this because you keep coming back. That is the disease SCREAMING at you. When you've had enough, you'll know it, and you'll then doing something about it.
So, you keep coming back. OK?
-- Edited by Doll at 21:51, 2006-08-14
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Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass... It's about learning to dance in the rain.
To me, when I read the 'constitutionally incapable' part, I also think of people afflicted with illnesses in addition to alcoholism, such as Multiple Personality Disorder... where a person is indeed neurologically in full flight from reality. There is even a dislaimer, though, for these such people... :IF they have the capacity to be honest'. At the time the book was written, much was left unknown about other neurological conditions, and successful treatments were few and far between.
But with modern therapies, as Toni mentioned, I believe that the 'success rate', as it were, may have gotten better. I have no clinical documentation to back this up, but it is something that makes sense to me. Especially since I, myself had an alternate illness that needed to be addressed.
Addressing this other problem was all part of my recovery. I was better fit to receive the program and its blessings of healing, when I was also addressing the problem that altered my reality in a way that made 12 Step work otherwise impossible to achieve. My devotion not only to AA, but also to my own mental health, is what helped me to start 'getting it'.
I want to add, also, that alcoholism itself has a myriad of symptoms, even upon putting the plug in the jug, that mimic, or mirrir other illness. I know fellow recovering alcoholics who were falsely diagnosed with such illnesses as bipolar and sever depression. Not to say that there aren't indeed some alcoholics that do suffer these illnesses in addition. But the symptoms of sobering up do lead some to believe they are losing their minds, when they actually are not.
The Big Book and 12&12 uses the word maladjustment quite a lot. This word refers to someone who is improperly adjusted to thinking, reacting, percieving and coping in ways that are actually ineffective when sober. When drinking, continual fear, self pity and depressive state actually help the alcoholic to continue and justify his addictive lifestyle. When we sober up, though, being so ingrained with these faulty coping skills, we are often unable to cope with life for a time, because the 'machine' doesn't work any more. We are attempting to become peaceful, happy, non-neurotic, functional people. But the faulty coping mechanisms (justification, perpetual dishonesty, running from things) that took often a lifetime to be ingrained, don't miraculously go away, and these certainly aren't promoting or making possible the happiness we are trying to attain. It is as though we are trying to run a new Toyota, using old Plymoth parts.
This is where a lot of confusion comes in, in my understanding of it. When we first get sober, it would not be normal for us to be instantly free of anxiety, depression, and the like. We have flooded the receptors in opur brains with a substance that falsified whatever was going on around us, and this was happening for years. We have neurologically conditioned ourselves in such a way, that certain 'pleasure chemicals' will NOT work without the presence of the substance we have used to trigger them.
The good news, is that it does get better. The body is an amazing machine, even on the neurological level. Brain function such as I just mentioned DOES change over time, in a great deal of people, back to the way it was supposed to work before we started flooding it with artficial enhancement.
And for those of us who continue to be 'maladjusted', thank God for modern medicine and therapy.
This post was not meant to suggest that suicidal ideation is 'normal', and does not need tended to. What I am simply describing is what should be expected in early recovery, as far as anxiety and depression. They are, to some degree, part and pasrcel to the act of removing alcohol from the body. Just because the detox only lasts a short time, does not mean that the body's functions (brain included) just 'pop back' into proper functioning.
When we put down the drink, we are in for the ride of our lives. Before I realized I needed 'outside help', I did ALL the things that were suggested, FIRST. I went to a meeting every single day for 6 months. I called another alcoholic every single day. I got a sponsor and used her, and called her every single day. I got a home group. I made coffee, shook hands and picked up ashtrays afterward. I prayed every morning and again at night. I read the Big Book and the 24 Hour Book. I began working the 12 Steps. It was only when I had done ALL these things, and yet had nightmares and 'Post Traumatic Episodes' even after 8 or 9 months, that I recognized I needed psychiatric help.
I would suggest, before labeling one's self 'constitutionally incapable', doing every single thing that is suggested for 6 months. Unless there is some other illness or problem lurking, it WILL get better. Just ask any other alcoholic that has indeed also done ALL of these suggested things. And if, by chance, there is another set of things to deal with mentally, armed with some sober time, any necessary therapy or treatment has a heck of a better chance of working.
Just answering this question from my OWN experience, strength and hope.
