If there are so many different people with so many different personalities and different beliefs. Why is there only one program? Just cos one program works for one person there is no reason to say it will work for another and vice versa..
I guess no one has got the umph together to make a different program....
Anyone ever had any ideas for a different program? Any ideas for different steps etc? Im not dismissing any steps or theories.. Just wondering...
I dont bleve that with so many people that there is only one option, one set of rules, one set of steps etc..... I think it entirely relies upon beliefs, life styles etc. So no set of rules is necesarily right for any one set person. What might work for someone is not necesarily what will work for another.
Anyone had any ideas for a diff set of steps.. Anyone found another way that works or atleast worked for them?
Anyone had any ideas contrary to AA that in your mind works?.. I dont bleve there is just one way to get through this... Though at the moment im confused and dont see any obviouse way... yet... I do not believ there is only one way...
So is there anyone out there who has found a different way through this? Id be interested to hear a different approach?
Well, Rob, as a Pagan, I did find 12 step programs available for people with my belief system, but it was the exact same thing as these steps, only pronouns were changed for accomodation. I found that I could do that myself (which I do). I'm sure there are other programs out there. Use your web search engine. What I did find in my web travels, though, were really just a bunch of people who "wanted" sobriety, whined about sobriety, but didn't want to do any of the work. So, I ran back to AA, and just practice the Steps from my own viewpoint, and do not change them. It's been working for a hundred diverse views so far over the decades. To want to find sobriety a different way at this point, would be like trying to reinvent the wheel. It just ain't gonna turn right, and I'll end up on my face. love, Wren
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i found god in myself/and I loved her/i loved her fiercely--Ntozake Shange
????????????? Hi Wren. I'm amazed that your meeting is open minded enough to accept the Pagan belief. You obviously have a great group, I wish mine was like that. My meeting (eventhough it's low key) is trying to push Jesus as the higher power. Won't work for me.
Best wishes to all of you.
Good night.
Chris.
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"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989"
If it is the religious aspect of the steps that are bothering you, keep in mind that AA is world wide. AA is not a Christian program. It is non-sectarian in it's policies. Around the world, there are members in AA who are Jewish, Buddhist, Confucianist, Taoist, Hindu, etc, as well as Christian. You don't HAVE to convert to Bible thumping to make it work.
There are certain aspects of the program, however, which, for me at least, make it work a WHOLE lot better. A lot of what it is really about for me, is learning to let go of my negative emotions/behaviors.
If you can't swallow the concept of a Higher Power in any form or fashion, you could consider your AA group, or even just your inner circle of friends from that group, as your higher power.
I think that a lot of what I get from the steps, is the ability to close the door on the past, and quit dwelling on what I did right and what I did wrong. It also helps me pull the shade on the window to the future, so I don't keep worrying about things have not happened and may not happen. It helps me stay in the moment. Very honestly, the thing that seems to work best for me when it comes to steps 2 & 3, is Zen (that and a little bit of the Tao). Both of those teach a lot about the serenity of living totally immersed in the here and now.
Two apprentices approached their Zen master as he was busily weeding a garden, hoping to gain insight as to what was most important task a person should strive to accomplish before the end of his life.
They asked him, "Master, if you found that you only had a few minutes left to live, what would you do?"
Without even a pause to look up, he replied, "What I am doing now."
Love and Peace in Sobriety,
Dan
-- Edited by Sick of being sick at 20:59, 2006-05-27
-- Edited by Sick of being sick at 21:01, 2006-05-27
If it aint Broken, Why Fix it?? We enjoy the fellowship, because we need the fellowship of AA, the meetings, working the Steps, for one reason, this Program took us out of a Hopeless condition, into a new way of life that has Hope in each day. And we enjoy the Meetings and this Board, because this is how WE STAY SOBER. So, my friend, I do understand the question, I just don't think you will find the answer on this Board.
We love AA, we owe our lives to AA, and remain humble always to a Program of action that saved our lifes, not a dramatization of that concept, a lot of us were looking at where the Disease, and the Progression of that Disease, came damn close to taking our, not material possessions, all those material comforts had been gone for some time, but our lives. You did not know us way back then, so maybe you think that this is how we came in here, healthy, and comfortable, and enjoying a life we never thought would be possible for us.
There is a saying in AA, you cannot keep it unless you give it away. Has proved to be true for many.
We stay right here, and in our meetings, for ourselves, and mostly from our hearts we want to help give away freely what was so freely given to us, to the dear souls we meet that are still suffering from this Disease.
It is the Central theme of our lives the 12 step work, we see someone suffering just like we were suffering and want to reach out to them, and Pray that they will Stay.
That's our Program. it has never been an Event, but a long hard Process to recover from this DREADED Disease that we ALL SHARE here, and stay right here and in our meetings because this is a life long process, the Disease of Alcoholism is TREATABLE, but will never be CURABLE.
I believe Chris hit the nail on the head when she said, there are many, many different Groups that do not share what I have desribled, but if you do a search on the Internet, they are very Easy to find. We just don't have need to go looking, because we are not disgruntled about this Program. This AA Program is also ONLY for people that WANT it, it is not designed for people that NEED it.
Did not mean to go on and on like this, I was just making an effort to tell you why we don't know of other sites. When you find one for yourself, come back and tell us about it, we all care a lot about you, and would love to see you find a Place that will work for you.
No, I have not heard of another program that works. I am not opposed to them - whatever keeps you sober and happy is a good thing - all the power to you. I have just never heard of another program that works.
There are always some people looking for an easier softer way. Before you dismiss the AA program maybe you should get off the fence and try working it. It's not so bad once you get the hang of it. Were a bunch of drunks we wouldn't have stayed if it sucked. Rob through your trial and tribulations you have maintained remarkably good humour but it seems like you are one of those stubborn drunks. Well good luck with finding a different path. The 12 steps work so well that to get the dope fiends out of the AA meetings Bill W. gave the 12 steps to the world, now there are over 200 12 step programs treating all socalitys ills. Some folks think that Bill and Bob had divine inspiration, oh you don't believe in God. Well Good luck anyway. Bob.
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Work like you don't need the money
Love like you've never been hurt, and
dance like no one is watching.
I've tried my own program not to work so well. Won't go into details there. Working with other alcoholics seems to be the only thing that works for me. Openmindedness is necessary to recover in whatever program is out there. Always looking for the negatives and not at the positives is a sure way to stay out there. Just my view.
It's kind of like working out to me. If I try it a few times and don't see any results......well what the fuck. This aint working. Think I'll go and have me a beer. Things take time and determination, to follow through with a course of action. Words really mean nothing, it's only our actions that mean anything to anyone. If I see someone at a meeting that talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk, I allow them to. It's none of my business what the next person is doing. I look for the similarities not the differences!
I tried other ways. One of them was supposed to teach me how to drink normally or decide if abstinence was the best bet for me. It didn't work. I tried my hardest to do what it said. Just 2 drinks. Abstain for 30 days and then try to drink moderately. I found myself drunk again in a short time. And beating myself up for not being able to do it. I am an alcoholic. I can NEVER drink like a normal person. Nor could I quit on my own willpower. I hope you find something that works for you. AA works for me so I think I'll keep doing this!
Was reading this, and thinking about an older woman, that would listen to people talking in this one meeting, a whole bunch of new people, (It was a newcomers meeting), and she always had only one thing to say.
If you put the "Plug in the Jug, and KEEP it there, you can do whatever else you want to do".
Never cared much for her, she was an old, oldtimer, with little patience, and not a lot of imagination, (was my take).
Just thought I would share this little memory with you this morning.
Hugs, Toni , and Hope you have a Wonderful Holiday, (do you have a Memorial day that is on this day too, or is it just in U.S. on this week-end?
I have a good imagination... In some respects.. And bleve me my mind is not narrow in terms of beliefs... I dont just shun the idea of a god.. i have other ideas and beliefs and theories.. Its just a think in a a completely different angle to the majority of the people i meet/speak to.
