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Post Info TOPIC: Forgiving OR not


MIP Old Timer

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Forgiving OR not
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Forgiving Individuals

The five steps in granting the gift of forgiveness to others (according to R. Klimes, PhD) are:

A. Acknowledge the anger and hurt caused by the clearly identified specific offense(s).

B. Bar revenge and any thought of inflicting harm as repayment or punishment to the offender.

C. Consider the offender's perspective. Try to understand his/her attitude and behavior.

D. Decide to accept the hurt without unloading it on the offender. Passing it back and forth magnifies it.

E. Extend compassion and good will to the offender. That releases the offended from the offense.

The rejection of forgiveness:


 A. Anger, the deep displeasure caused by a sense of injury or wrong, if not checked, can lead to sickness, conflicts or violence.


 B. Revenge or a defensive attitude on the part of the wrong-doer makes forgiveness very difficult. Thus the process never goes beyond the 2nd step. 


Some people who have been deeply hurt in life develop a negative addiction, a chronic negative attitude expressed in frequent anger, rejection, suspicion, and mistrust.



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MIP Old Timer

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"Some people who have been deeply hurt in life develop a negative addiction, a chronic negative attitude expressed in frequent anger, rejection, suspicion, and mistrust."


I never thought of it as an 'addiction' before, but, since addiction means habit, then , yeah, I guess it is. hmmm.   food for thought here. Habits are things we do over and over and ov er again till it is automatic and then when we don't do it it feels like something is wrong.  That must be a part of why it is emphasized in AA that we have to work to develop an attitude of gratitude, and to change this negative habitual stinking thinking. I guess that's one reason why some people get dry, but remain miserable people because of this negative attitude stuff.


I was doing Step 7 again today. Lord, please take me to the next level, and replace these shortcomings with better things. Amen.


amanda



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MIP Old Timer

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"The alcoholic is like a tornado roaring his way through the lives of
others. Hearts are broken. Sweet relationships are dead.
Affections have been uprooted. Selfish and inconsiderate habits have
kept the home in turmoil. We feel a man is unthinking when he says
that sobriety is enough"

~Alcoholics Anonymous, 4th Edition, Into Action, pg. 82~


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MIP Old Timer

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WOW< phil,  i am going to  reply in  "pieces"  this is sooo good and i sooo relate to it........


 


Phil wrote:







Forgiving Individuals The five steps in granting the gift of forgiveness to others (according to R. Klimes, PhD) are:


A. Acknowledge the anger and hurt caused by the clearly identified specific offense(s).


>>>>>>>>this was the starte for me---ackknowledgement---acceptance--that YES, he DID this to me and he ruined my trust/love/hopes/dreams/innocense....i had a LIST of hurts/ injuries that he inflicted on me.....instead of directing my anger at "something ELSE" becuz of my fear of him....i began to finally REdirect the anger WHERE IT BELONGED------squarely on him......


B. Bar revenge and any thought of inflicting harm as repayment or punishment to the offender.


>>>>>>>>i used to dream/ fantasize of killing him indian style......skinning him alive, torturing him b4 i sent him to hell in pieces.....i really fantasized about this, i was SOOO full of hate/ revenge for this man....... now??? and ONLY since i got into recovery and found a REAL Higher Power, i can now, (oh sure, i should have and wish i did sue him for damages, but was too sick to even think it) but revenge???? i figure the karma can pay him back better than me.....and revenge is a trap..it bars me from being able to focus on me/ loving me/ taking care of me.....it keeps me "tied to this garbage" and that is the LAST thing i want to do....i figure what he did to me, he did 1000 fold to himself......"revenge is mine says the Lord, i SHALL repay".....i have come to trust in that word.....


C. Consider the offender's perspective. Try to understand his/her attitude and behavior.


>>>>>>>there is NO considering a serial child rapist, who gets his "jollies" raping the body/ mind/ soul of a BABY!!!!! his attitude was simple----EVIL---given over to demons-----give over to God/ judgement and DETACH!!!! i do not want to EVER understand THAT kind of degenerate mind....even the bible says....."he is given over to the degenerate mind"....i take that as some folks are so evil, the Holy Spirit leaves adn they are allowed to be taken over by their god of choice....the best thing i can do????? give it over to God for disposition and leave it


D. Decide to accept the hurt without unloading it on the offender. Passing it back and forth magnifies it.


>>>>>>>>>i accept my hurt and i could never hurt him the way he did me......even if he were alive, yes, i would try to get damages from him, but it would be strictly to pay for my therapy so needed/ medicine/ lost wages due to my being to sick to accept the many opportunites that i missed due to my injuries......sort of like workman's comp.....i never got any damages from him, so i look to my HP to meet my needs, healing and suppport wise.......i cannot sue him now, so why ruminate on it.....my hp will "recompense me" i must be WILLING to trust in that........the other offenders in my life????? i tell them what they DID to me.....how it IMPACTED me......how i will PROTECT me (boundaries) from now on.......no revenge...just boundaries, or permanently removing myself from offenders who are toxic and will repeat.....


E. Extend compassion and good will to the offender. That releases the offended from the offense. The rejection of forgiveness:


>>>>>>>>>depends on the offence......do u show compassion for hitler?? dahmer??? or manson???? NO!!! even God does not expect us to show compassion and good will for evil........but he DOES expect me to "turn it over for HIM to repay"....that is good enough for me...........funny--- i tell my HP that i am WILLING to give up the hate/ resentment for my perp, and i can already see my heart emptying of this poison and filling up with love/ honour for me/ God/ and things that are GOOD......it is my duty as a human to forgive **honest human mistakes** but willful evil???? no!! its a waste------ i do my visuals as i work through yet MORE pain, of wrapping him up in a trash bag and dumping him at the feet of Jesus and leaving him there.........


A. Anger, the deep displeasure caused by a sense of injury or wrong, if not checked, can lead to sickness, conflicts or violence.


>>>>>>>>i believe that anger must be TOTALLY discharged/ worked through B4 ANY "making my peace with it" can happen.....forgiveness is a *bye product* of healing.....NOT a prerequesite.....and anyway, B4 i could "dump him at the feet of Christ" i had to FIRST work through my INTENSE anger/ rage/ outrage/ grief and i STILL am in grief cycles....i still struggle with being able to love myself....to NOT think of me as a "defect"..........*righteous* anger is healthy...otherwise why did God give us this emotion??? but out of control anger??? yes, it is dangerous, and i sit here thanking my HP that i never turned serial killer over what happened to me......i say "thank U HP for keeping my soul to the good".......but i will discharge and work through ALL my emotions so i can heal......


B. Revenge or a defensive attitude on the part of the wrong-doer makes forgiveness very difficult. Thus the process never goes beyond the 2nd step.


>>>>>>>>>>>well i said what i had to say re: revenge above.....i think revenge and dwelling on it is a trap....it takes me away from ME...my HP....my recovery.......like the jews say of evil!!! "may his name be erased" and they walk away...(this means that he is erased from the "book of life" by God).........i went to court---- "erased his name" off me--got a new one---and i CHOSE to walk away----


Some people who have been deeply hurt in life develop a negative addiction, a chronic negative attitude expressed in frequent anger, rejection, suspicion, and mistrust.


>>>>>>>>>>>i think i got a "high" on my anger......i think i was addicted to it B4 i surrenderd it.......i got "highs and lows" out of it....and i felt shame for it.....THAT is an addiction and so i was addicted to my anger..........as far as rejection??? i feared it becuz of my "dirty secret".....i do not now............suspicion??? i am leary of people until they show me they are SAFE, i may always probably will always be "slow to trust" but i am WILLING with safe people--- in increments......mistrust??? in the beginning i mistrusted me/ God/ Life to the fullest.....NOTHING NOWHERE was safe!!! becuz it was not growing up--- now i am teaching me that "that was than--this is now---and YES, i am SAFE now becuz i can protect me---and i have my God"......so the trust issues will probably be something i shall always struggle with......my earthly "god's" betrayed me the worst #1 worst way--- and i didn't understand and felt that God in heaven abandoned me to the perp's attacks.....i learned EARLY in my life --- nothing was to be trusted--- not even me cuz i screwed up so badly with my choices/ actions due to my injuries......now??? in recovery??? i am SLOWLY learning to trust me/ my intuitions/ my "voice within" my Christ within, my HP, AND SAFE others.....but i am slow....to trust may be the scariest thing to me in the entire world.......i treat myself with compassion for this, becuz who WOULDNT be afraid in my shoes????? but i am OPEN--- HONEST about it---WILLING to work with it-----SURRENDERING it to my God for healing......it is progressing---but it will take time..............








-- Edited by rosie light shines at 11:52, 2006-03-14

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MIP Old Timer

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I tend to agree...I know that forgiveness is a must...


Had a situation..when I was young.. too Rosie...and held it inside for a long time..


I look at that situation today...and just hafta say...that I hafta have compassion..for the sick individual..that they were..and yes...forgiveness had to be a part of that...I couldnt hang onto it..and go forward..


For a long time in my life....I was incapable of forgiving...and I didnt want to in a few cases..


I wanted to hold onto that anger..inside..and use it as a lever, against others...put up walls..stuff it..and carry on...


I carried on...but all that crap was still there...and I just played the blame game..and used denial...and it kept me from taking a good look at me..


I carried garbage from one relationship to another...and the pile just became bigger...and it was the "I Dare Not Look" thing..


Triggers would come up..from the past...and blow the relationship to smitherines...


I came to the point where..I couldnt have a relationship with myself...so how was one to have a relationship with anyone else?


Then..If you put 2 people together..that have been down the same roads...and both have piles of garbage from the past...there are mistrust issues..and other negative things...flying all over the place..OUCH!!


I have a sponsor today...that keeps saying..."What has yesterday got to do with today?"


And He is right....If one has dealt with all the yesterdays..through working the 12 steps...all that crap should be gone..


Still peeling the onion here(smile)   Have a good day...


 



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