On Tolerance ..... Want to share?

Toni Baloney · MIP Old Timer

On Tolerance ..... Want to share?

Doll · MIP Old Timer

Tolerance, uggghhh! Guess I have a little more today than I did, but that's not saying much. I'm still stuck in the old rut most days. Hate stupidity, wish old folks would get off the highway and outta my way, want to tell my boss just where the company is f*&king up, etc, etc! But the difference today is I tolerate better by keeping my mouth shut instead of spouting off < MOST of the time. During the holding of my tongue I a) recite the serenity prayer b) have my own little meeting in my head (yes, sicker than others!) c) tell myself what my sponsor would say ! until it passes.... The INtolerance still exists, but I do recognize it today and I'm not so quick to jump at it. I'm still "faking it" hoping to make it on this one, maybe, some day.....

thanks Toni.

Love ya!

-- Edited by Doll at 22:12, 2006-01-28

amanda2u2 · MIP Old Timer

okay.. well,,, here is where I look in my dictionary:

tolerate - 1. to allow to be or be done without active opposition, 2. to bear, or sustain,

tolerant - 1. indulgent, or liberal,

okay, now.. it depends on which definition we're using here. I am of the opinion that some behaviors just should not be tolerated. I know that is politically incorrect in the days where anything goes,, but I have definite standards that are maybe somewhat flexible but only to a limit. Does anyone really think that sexual abuse of children should be tolerated? Do we think that our leaders should just be able to do whatever they want with no active opposition? Should I tolerate my child selling drugs from my house?

the other definition is one I can get into... that is that I won't break easily if something does happen. I can tolerate a lot of pain if I have to without falling apart.

Some people who pride themselves on being 'tolerant' really are not. We can tolerate a judge who will try to keep abortion legal,,, even tho it was a judge who changed it from being illegal to legal in 1973,,, but we can't tolerate a judge who is prolife. We can tolerate alll kinds of religions,, except Christianity now.

lol don't get me started... lol

amanda

GammyRose · MIP Old Timer

I guess when I think of tolerance, especially on the MIP board, I try to keep it in the terms of the program of recovery. If I'm sitting in an AA meeting with someone that I normally would not come in contact with, because of whatever differences, I can tolerate them for the hour I'm there. I can share my experience, strength and hope with them on how recovery has worked for me.I have had a hard time lately in meetings with people who have this holier than thou attitude, who belittle those who just can't seem to stay sober, but keep coming back.I have to tolerate the jerks who are so perfect, if I don't I have no where to work my program.Hey, I have learned tolerance from those who have tolerated me and my faults , flaws, and loved me anyway. Lately, my group has been talking alot about people on probation or parole being in meetings,the group is not being very tolerant...it bothers me because we have several who have years of sobriety in the group and they came because they were on probation at one time.

And because of the program, I have learned I have no control over others. Yes, if I'm given a vote on the matter I can cast a ballot.If placed on a committe I can put in my two cents, if I see an injustice being done I can call the authorities, which I will do.I feel there is a time and a place to speak out, but an AA meeting is a place each person should have a right to be who they are and to figure out who they want to become.

Yes, Amanda I'm with you, don't get me started. Another good topic, Toni.

(((Hugs)))

GammyRose

Toni Baloney · MIP Old Timer

Well, i have two seperate ideas on the two, the first is to tolerate; Example i can tolerate my neighbor using a drill saw, but i can tolerate it a little better, if I close my windows.

The second: is Tolerance: Out of my dictionary is: Sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own.

So my understanding of tolerance is for others, when they are different than mine own beliefs.

Toleratation or to tolerate, is overlooking, not necessary liking some of my own short comings as well as others that might have a tendency, if not checked, to be annoying.

This is a big world full of people that we like, love, and then there are some that we don't especially like, or even dislike, but I need to give them the same respect that we would give a person that we like. We can respect their own God Given Rights to be who they are, but i dont think we have to push ouselves in trying to make ourselves like them, that would to me be impossible. My responsibilty lies in the respect i must honor all humans with, deserving of respect or not deserving of respect. That is for God to decide, not me. He forgives us all, the good and the not so good, so I have no right to make that distinction. Once again this is an IDEAL to be strived for, very hard to practice. That's my take on these two.

I'm laughin too, cause we could debate this one for about a year. But I am DONE (maybe)TeTe

Toni

-- Edited by Toni Baloney at 00:06, 2006-01-29

Phil · MIP Old Timer

My 2 brain cells worth.....

Tolerance...is the ability...just to sit back..quietly...and watch others "F" up.and make asses of themselves.....and be grateful that I dont hafta be in it.:)

The rest of it....? Just carry a big hammer.....and dont get caught....

And Doll?? Who the hell are you callin old???!!!! hahaha

I wont tolerate that kind of abuse..yu know eh??? lol

amanda2u2 · MIP Old Timer

okay,,, well.. that all sounds very good, it really does. Then we get back to the 'practice these principles in all our affairs' and to our families,,, if we can say all that about anyone who comes in to an AA meeting, or we bump into on the street,,,, we are supposed to be the same way about our drunken spouses, brothers, fathers, mothers, coworkers, etc.... toxic people, too. Can't have a double standard.

Phil's idea about it comes close to a lot of people's, in being just that it's a 'who cares' if someone else messes up. What is the difference between tolerating and caring? is it the same as indifference?

Actually, there are some things in AA meetings too, that we don't tolerate. I have seen disruptive people asked to leave,, and people who have wandered into zones and stolen things that have gotten banned.

To me, sometimes love is saying, 'no'. And sometimes love is really caring that another person who is not caring about themselves. I care.

amanda

-- Edited by amanda2u2 at 04:46, 2006-01-29

-- Edited by amanda2u2 at 04:58, 2006-01-29

-- Edited by amanda2u2 at 05:02, 2006-01-29

jersey · Veteran Member

alright this is my take on tollerance

'Live and let live' and 'keep in your own backyard'

believe me there is so much there for me to do to maintain my yard that i find i dont have the time to get ''all up''in others shit for me to have to 'deal' with that tollerance comes easy to me.

dont have time to 'think' about being the 'god' i used to be.

just my take for this 'recoverING' alkie.

when i become 'recovered' maybe just maybe i will get back to my throne and start fixing people again.........lol

good topic..........thanks Toni.

amanda2u2 · MIP Old Timer

okay.. for 'live and let live' and 'stay in our own backyard' and all... what are we doing in Iraq? and Afghanistan? Why do we have police? would you ever call the police? If you saw someone being mugged, would you ignore it cuz it is not in your yard?

There are some religious faiths that call for human sacrifice. Satanic rituals call for some forms of abuse , and of children.. should we tolerate that? Next door there is a family where a child is locked in a closet for hours while the parents are gone... that is across the fence and not in our yard.. tolerance? Or is that playing god to impose our values on them?

excellent topic - it makes us think about the difference between apathy and indifference, and Love that has boundaries.

Now, are you all being so tolerant that you about to not tolerate my opinions? lol I've got to say, that.. talking is one thing.. and all this is interesting talk,,, but... I've seen all the posts about the way we walk.. this one can't stand this relative,, and that one can't stand toxic people, and another one is isolating. Got big fences in those little backyards. I'm done with this topic for now. Going to start a thread on 'boundaries.'

amanda

-- Edited by amanda2u2 at 08:52, 2006-01-29

bry · Member

For me I think combining patience and tolerance is important. Being tolerant of things like other drivers on the road , other people in meetings and personalities in general. Common sense tells me taking the definitions to the exteme ,as in tolerating child abuse etc. is ludicus.

I just want to keep a level of patience and tolerance in my life and program to help me stay sober.

ZuZu · Veteran Member

I think this is an interesting topic and thought I would share what I found to be interesting reading on tolerance.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

Tolerance is a social, cultural and religious term applied to the collective and individual practice of not persecuting those who may believe, behave or act in ways of which one may not approve. Authoritarian systems practice intolerance, the opposite of tolerance. Tolerance is seen as a more widely acceptable term than "acceptance" and particularly "respect," where the application to controversial parties is concerned. Tolerance implies both the ability to punish and the conscious decision not to. It is usually applied to non-violent, consensual behavior, often involving religion, sex, or politics. It rarely permits violent behavior.

In the wider sociological sense, "tolerance" carries with it the understanding that "intolerance" and conformity breeds violence and social instability. "Tolerance" has thus become the social term of choice to define the practical rationale of permitting uncommon social practice and diversity. One only tolerates people who are disliked for their differences. While people deemed undesirable may be disapproved of, "tolerance" would require that the party or group in question be left undisturbed, physically or otherwise, and that criticism directed toward them be free of inflammatory or inciteful efforts.

Have a great day!

ZuZu