Hi, i'm new here. I could use a little advice please. One of our members has recently gone out. 2 months ago I was shocked to see him, very much under the influence, chairing a meeting. I called him on it and much drama has happened since then. 2 nights ago I walked into a meeting to see him at the podium and I left. He has since announced that he plans to pick up his 3 year medallion soon. What do the guidelines say about:
1. Someone with no clean time chairing a meeting?
2. Do we have the right/obligation to stop someone from picking up a medallion knowing it is a lie?
We have an old-timer who says it is a complete mockery. But some members say it is strictly a matter between him and his concience.
But some members say it is strictly a matter between him and his concience. Thanks.
Welcome Miami Sober,
I tend to agree with the folks above.
The Big Book says; To be a member all I have to do is say I'm a member.
If another persons presence in a meeting gives me a problem, I have options.
If I see someone who is not working the program and it gives me a problem, I have options.
If I see a fellow alcoholic active in the addiction and they lie about it later and that also gives me a problem, I have options.
Out of just those 3 little examples of some of the things I can find wrong with another fellow alcoholic, I see 2 things in common. (1) I have a problem and (2) there are solutions to my problem. Rembering also, the only person I can change is myself and when I'm busy taking my own inventory, I don't have time to do other peoples.
Doesnt really set a good example for newcommers..does it..?
Dont know how things are done in the south..compared to Canada...I take it.. the principles are the same..
In our area--one hasta be sober six months..before chairing a meeting..
One year before any group service position..and 2 years to be a GSR..
If a member of our group ---was knowlingly..not sober on that continual basis..they would be called on it..in private...either by a sponsor..or at least 2 service members of our group...and told that they could not take part...in those capacities..without continuous sobriety ...per..the required number of days..
The other side of the coin? If a person steps up to the plate and asks for a medallion..knowlingly...not sober...on a continuous basis...its his concience...and on his head...not ours..
We also have people on the weed programme...and the over indulging medication programme...
Cant do a thing about it...its not our stuff...
The only requirement for AA membership..is a desire to stop drinking..
We are alcohol only...and its a .Live and Let Live thing....
Anyway---thats how its done here...Good to meet you Buddy...
Philip Doig..DCM..Area 86..District 5..Ontario..Canada..
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Easy Does it..Keep It Simple..Let Go and Let God..
I don't know how it's done elsewhere but here in Northern California it's a given that if you aren't clean you aren't really sober. I do both programs and I respect both programs because I qualify for both programs. Some folks say Alcoholism is a different and seperate disease from drug addiction and that may be true from the clinicial point of veiw. But from the human heart, the drunk, the junkie the tweeker and all addicted people are the same. I've seen folks with time go out, then come back all tore up but I've never seen anyone go out then LIE about it, sounds like this person needs extra help to get back on the AA path, this is a program off rigirous self honesty. This person is really hurting then self and needs our prayers.
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Work like you don't need the money
Love like you've never been hurt, and
dance like no one is watching.
I also am new here, but it seems to me if a person is lying, they have a serious problem-and it is more between them and their Higher Power and their conscience than the other members.
As for what kind of example this sets for other members, well...I think it may actually help prove what a deceptive disease alcoholism is. I doubt anyone would say AA was endorsing the behavior of this person on the podium, and many would see they were under the influence. And yes, the non-sober person should get taken aside and talked to in a caring manner-they probably have some big-time denial going on, if not some other problems. If they are just being a total jerk and making a mockery of AA, well, I suppose they need to get out. But if they simply have relapsed, the goal should be to get them right back on track-and that may take some effort by others.
I'd say it must be uncomfortable to watch or listen to someone supposedly trying to stay sober who is drunk and chairing a meeting of AA-but I'd feel sorry for this person. Maybe this incident can be used constrctively to reinforce staying sober? Surely anyone who witnessed it probably did not come away going "Boy, I sure want to imitiate tonight's chairperson!" I am sure it was not an inspiring event! But I understand being angry or upset about it-it seems it should be against the rules. Yet it simply may show how easy it is to go astray, even for a chairperson! If the person repents and shows they are on the right track again, I'd want to let it go. I'm sure if they are committed to sobriety the incident will hurt them more than anyone else who witnessed it.
Me, I'll pray for this person. I'd be so embarrassed if I were them, and I would need lots of prayers so I could try to stay sober after this. But it is a great example of how human we all are, and what this drug and disease can do to us. Thanks for sharing this!
My homegroup requires 60 continous days of sober AND clean to be eligible to chair and if someone seems to be under the influence of a substance other than alcohol, it's asked that we let our sponsors and/or other AA members know. It's not tolerated unless that person has a doctor's prescription As for picking up medallions, well, that one's between them and their conscience.
Doll
-- Edited by Doll at 22:24, 2006-01-05
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* We eventually realize that just as the pains of alcoholism had to come before sobriety, emotional turmoil comes before serenity. *
We are in a rural area..here in Ontario....and there are very few NA or other addiction meetings, closeby.
We welcome all persons into our groups..wishing to work a 12 step program, to suit their needs..
Even tho, we cannot recognize them as AA members.and they cannot participate in service, as AA members(if they dont have a problem with alcohol)..they become a part of our fellowship..which is great..
The more..the merrier...and we welcome them with the same love and understanding..as we would any recovering alcoholic...
I attended meetings on and off for seven years..drunk..I was never allowed to participate...except in sharing...but I was damned glad to be welcomed, somewhere..I wasnt wanted, and welcomed in too many other places.:)
Have a good night...guys and gals...
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Easy Does it..Keep It Simple..Let Go and Let God..
Just to clarify, my above reply was in regards to chairing meetings only.
Everyone is welcome. Hell! We've had them puke and piss the floor. Makes no never mind to me, but I don't want someone "loaded" (on anything) behind the podium at a meeting I attend.
Doll
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* We eventually realize that just as the pains of alcoholism had to come before sobriety, emotional turmoil comes before serenity. *
There's a difference between someone who is secretly drinking and using and someone who is standing or sitting in front of you obviously drunk or high,,, slurring speech, smell of alcohol. If someone was drunk yesterday and is chairing a meeting right now, that is one thing,, but if someone is obviously under the influence and chairing in a way that you have to be aware of it that is something else. Someone is going to walk up to you reeking of alcohol and unsteady on his feet and you are going to give him/her a medallion? Everyone is in denial here, and the program calls for rigorous honesty. Yes, I am to focus on myself, and part of that is the question of what I am going to do about this situation in which I am involved. There is the option of doing an intervention here. Yes,, all that is required to be a member is the desire to stop drinking, but to be chairperson and/or to get sober time medallions there are added requirements. We had a treasurer whose behavior was out of line, and the money count was odd. Was that nobodies business either? Just between her and God? uh uh. We did have a confrontation with the lady, who resigned. To allow a person to obviously make a mockery of the program right in front of you is only enabling everyone to make a farce of the program.
love in recovery,
amanda
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do your best and God does the rest, a step at a time
Welcome Miami Sober. I think each group has there own guidelines on how long you have to be sober before you chair a meeting,I've known sponsors who wouldn't allow their sponsorees to chair meetings or read "How it works" in a meeting until they were sober a year, weird to me.
I've been in meetings where the chairperson was drunk, someone would take him aside before the meeting started and tell him someone else was going to chair, been in meetings where nothing was said and the drunk person chaired.This is one of the times a group conscience meeting could help make it clear on what the group would like to do in the event this happens again.
I've seen many people get a medallion and was pretty sure they had slipped, but I agree it's their deal not mine. I've seen some of those same people come to the next meeting and confess that they had slipped and give that medallion back, I've always told them I was glad they told the truth. Awhile back there was post on the board about a man who drinks wine once a week and he still gets his medallion, not something I would do , but I'm not the AA police. If this is something that is causing you problems and there seems to be no resolution , maybe you could try a different group . Has the oldtimer spoke to the guy? To thine own self be true.
Thanks all of you for welcoming me so kindly. This is what I have come to love about AA. It seems the responses to this message are as divided here as they are at the room. I just want to say that I have absolutely no problem with anyone coming to the room under the influence. I am always grateful to look into the face of my disease, seeing someone act a fool truly strenghthens me. This is why I volunteer at a detox once a week. But, I come into that room to hear a message from the speaker about Staying sober, Working my steps and Trusting my Higher Power. During the meeting that this person was chairing he actually turned towards 2 newcomer women and started hitting on them. They have not come back since. Effectively jepordizing my Sobriety. (sorry if that sounds a little dramatic) I really do understand minding my own business but this seemed to cross that line. I believe that to allow someone to continue to chair intoxicated, and not put a stop to it, is apathetic. Look, I know how "we" are, I know we're all a little crazy, i'm on the steering commitee and i've seen some Crazy stuff but we have to be able to use some common sense.
The old timer told me "If you allow those around you to be sick, you too will eventually become sick."
I agree with you. There is a difference between being present at a meeting while drunk or high, I have no problem with that, and participating in official functions while drunk. It really makes AA look bad when official functions are carried out by active drunks. These are people that we look to for leadership, and can be obstacles instead. I think I would take, and I have done this when I have gone to groups where the leadership is out of whack, the person's advice to just leave it and find another group. Of course that is easy for me to do since I live in a city where there are lots of groups to choose from, and not so easy in smaller towns. I don't think that AA meant for us to just close our eyes to everything and pretend it's all okay when it's not... that is part of our disease.
love in recovery,
amanda
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do your best and God does the rest, a step at a time
I agree with the majority that an intoxicated person should not be chairing a meeting let alone receive a medallion for three years of sobriety - well the sobriety is a joke - who does he think he is kidding anyway? I am sorry but this infuriates me!! What kind of an example does this set - especially for the new comers and how could the regulars (for lack of better words right now) let this person away with this? I ask you HOW COULD THEY just sit there and let an intoxicated person chair a meeting? Also how can this person live with this on there conscience knowing darn well what he has done is wrong - totally against the programs rules and regulations and yet the people at the meeting let him chair anyway knowing full well what he has done. What makes this person so special that he can get away with this but no one else can. Coming to a meeting intoxicated is one thing but chairing the meeting intoxicated is another. Where does this person get off anyway? I have only been in the program a short time but even I know that this is wrong. He says he has been sober for three years - yeah right and give me a break! This is between himself, his conscience and higher power. I can hear a new comm er say -" went to an a.a. meeting last night and the chair person was intoxicated - what a joke." Obviously this person is not true to himself and the program.
Phil - guys have better aim in a cup than a gal.
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You only live once; but if you work it right, once is enough. There is nothing better than the encouragement of a good friend.
I wrote a long response two days ago, to your post, and then I lost it.
Just want you to know that if I saw a person getting a chip, that had been drinking or using in between, I would say to my self "God Bless Him"
I have seen so many people in these rooms, over the years, drunk, and because the only requirement is a 'desire' to stop drinking, have always honored their right to be there, and feel they are sitting there loaded, BECAUSE they need our help, and non-verbally are asking us for it. In my opinion, these fellow Alcoholics need Extra Support and Love, with maybe getting into Detox.and being welcomed with warmth and love.
As far as Someone showing up and acting as Secretary, with the Guildlines being very clear,6 MONTHS OF CONTINUOUS SOBRIETY, here on the West Coast. Sounds like that changes with each Geograpic area. If that was something I was watching, I would have a little "cow" over it, while sitting through the meeting and Speak up to whoever was in a position to make that not acceptable, and if I could not find such a person, I would speak to the person myself about reviewing and Understanding the Guidelines.(Gently)
I personally attended many, many meetings, while not drinking, but with a duzzy of a hangover from the night before. Remember it well!!!!!!!
Only for the new people in the Rooms, the possiblity of them never coming back would be the BIG Problem.
Looks like we all have our opinions, and they are all correct.
A Big Hug,
and Thank you for bringing up this Important Issue.
