Ok, this isn't really about recovery, but this is something I have seen quite a bit of and heard about in the little over a year I've been in AA, mostly and *especially* with online groups. I have never had a problem here, you all are family, and I trust y'all. But there is a chatroom I go to where I see a whole lot of this. And I have heard about it going on even in f2f meetings. Women NEED to stick together, and women NEED to not be ashamed if anything happens with a man in the program, and do NOT need to blame themselves, and we NEED to tell people when something happens with a man in AA whether that's in an online group or f2f so that other women will know about it and can watch out for themselves also. Like I said, this isn't about anything that happened here, but it is something I think women in ANY AA group need to know that it happens, online and f2f. Mostly I'm just kinda needing to vent, but I've seen this happen in various groups online, and for all I know it could happen here or may have with someone else.
This chatroom I go to (at another site), most everyone I've met in there has been great, have made some really good close friends. But there are a few guys in there that I found out go after newcomer women, and they have gone after me also in this past year. I have had 2 guys in there never take it too far but were trying really hard to, harassing me quite a bit with private chats and stuff. 2 other guys I had thought were ok from talking to them in open chat, and added them to MSN messenger, and as soon as we were talking in private they were all over me, and they knew the vulnerable state I'd been in at the time, between problems with my boyfriend at the time, or the vulnerability of being alone for the first time in my life, something they know I do not handle very well. I'd been warned to watch out for guys in there, but I (and other women) have been sucked in by it. Some guys know exactly the right thing to say to make you feel that they (and you) are not doing anything wrong, and when you start to feel uncomfortable with what is going on, they know what to say to keep you involved in it. I've been told about women even getting so sucked into it and winding up going back out and even throwing away *years* of sobriety over something like this, because they got caught by one of these men at a very vulnerable period in their life.
Some people have said to me that the men can't really be all to blame. My online sponsor insisted to me that I'd not done anything wrong, but in all honesty I can see part of how I brought it on myself, and that maybe I *should* have had the sense to not be so trusting and to not talk in, I was a total nutcase at that time, I also did not have very good judgement, and was craving some kind of attention and affection, and these men knew that. And I see them continuously going after women in the exact same type of position.
Another woman in that chatroom had this happen to her, just came out and told a few of us in there about it last night, and there was a woman in there trying to say that we just bring it on ourselves. This pissed me off so bad, because you might as well say that a woman who is molested or raped in person brought it on herself then, because she shouldn't have put herself in that position or whatever. I've been in that situation too, f2f, with abusive boyfriends or abusive male "friends". And I would NEVER say that it is the woman's fault when that happens. We see in the news all the time, women getting punished for being victims of abuse or rape, and we see men continuously getting away with it. Yes, online, we can ignore people in chat rooms, we can block them on messenger, we don't have to answer their emails. But the men that do these kinds of things are very sick men, and are very manipulative, and know how to mess with a woman's mind - this coming from my experience and many other women's experience.
I'm sorry, I'm just really pissed off, especially that a WOMAN can say that it is the woman's fault when something like this happens. This goes on quite a bit from what I've heard, even in f2f meetings. I've never had it happen to me f2f, but have had this happen online, where it seems to be more prevalent. I just needed to rant mostly. but I think women, especially in online groups, need to know that this goes on, and need to know that it is OK to speak up about it and say that it happened. If we don't, then it will continue to happen.
Just want to repeat, I've NEVER had anything like this happen here, I feel safe here. But it *could* happen to someone. The place where it happened to me, and where I see it happen more to others, there is no place to make a public post about it to let other women know that it happens. I (and others) have emailed the moderator, but it has not stopped and probably won't. So I just warn newcomers about who to watch out for, and some of us speak pretty openly in there about who to watch out for, hoping to prevent it from happening to someone else.
I'm posting this in a couple other places also, because I think women need to see this, and need to know to watch out for it. And it's not just women who need to watch out, I'm sure. I've heard it happen the other way around too, women going after newcomer men. But being a woman, I'm just speaking the woman's view on it.
What your referring to is often called 13th stepping. It's said that some of us are sicker then others. Just because a person stops using Alcohol and Drugs doesn't mean that they are well and wonderful. It is wrong for someone with time (man or woman) to prey upon newcomers, no ifs ands or buts. It's one of the reasons that it's suggested that women newcomer hook up with fellow women. In a lot of groups the Women with time (Salty old broads) look out for the newcomers and warn them about these predators. There are female predators but they are much rarer. These scum balls prey upon the weakness of others, their misdeeds should be shown the light of day and they should be denounced for their deplorable conduct. Good luck. Bob.
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Work like you don't need the money
Love like you've never been hurt, and
dance like no one is watching.
When I first came into AA there was a guy with a few thousand 24 hours who loved to 13th step. It took about 2 seconds of hearing him share in a f2f to realize he was a predator....long story short, he was finally kicked out of my HG and we found out later he'd been run out of a few meetings within the area...Then, last year, he showed up on the front page of the local newspaper. He'd murdered his mother!
I totally agree, we all need to look out for one another in so many ways.... Had someone in my HG 'had my back' I wouldn't be out a few thousand bucks !! - that's a whole nother can of worms.
Lisa, in my very humble opinion, SC is a very NASTY little place....the blogs are pitiful most times and it only took me once in the chat room to realize that particular recovery site could easily get me drunk again.....and, if it's possible R.Chat is even worse...
(((hugs)))
-- Edited by Doll at 20:29, 2007-11-29
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Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass... It's about learning to dance in the rain.
I learned a long time ago there are emotional predators in a lot of places, the internet certainly not excluded.
I have to be really careful where I place myself when I am feeling particularly vulnerable, including online.
This behavior isn't limited to just sick alcoholics, it takes all kinds.
However, in recovery oriented atmospheres, the predators realize there can be prime pickings.
I've seen it at meetings and online, unfortunately.
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"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguements and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
~Herbert Spencer
Thanks for having the courage to speak out about this, Lisa. It's important for those of us who want to get well & go to any lengths to do so to stay mindful of our motives & to watch for how others in their intentions could be detrimental to that too. It took me awhile to clear free of my own stickyness in this arena & after alot of hard work I feel I've achieved that today 1Day@aTime. A few months ago I fell into a big mistake not realising at the time my own guilt & I left myself vulnerable instigating with someone who was in a worse state than me. I had 10months when I fell foul of crossing that boundary with someone who was in dire need & I took advantage thinking because he was nowhere near sober he had nothing to lose. Such was my sickness. My codependence was rife & the two of us had no strength to fight free of it at the time. I talked alot with fellow females to help ease & understand the distress I was causing to myself & him likewise. It was this that gave me a real life~line to begin to see things differently. I felt terrible knowing that I had had some sobriety but I was stuck cuz I obviously had to realise I had more than the drink to deal with in my dependencies. It was a real learning lesson for me & luckily for us I went away for a couple of weeks & he hit his rockbottom & managed to get back into rehab where he is today & now nearly 3months sober. It was a short spell of a messy month & I managed to stay sober too but I had to stay away until the time came when I was able to make an amend with him & truly apologise for my part in it. My last word to him in that conversation was that 'I respected his sobriety'. That meant the world to me & was the complete turn around that I needed. I would never have dared to mess with anyone who had more than me, also because I didn't want to get any more involved with anyone & if they had some wellness & I was genuinely interested that could escalate into a relationship. Simply, for me, there is no escape from my sobriety today & I wouldn't want to risk it prematurely & without first getting to know someone & knowing myself well too. I'm deeply sorry & ashamed that this even had to happen but I did learn alot & I've forgiven myself for the stupidity I had at that time but I can only keep this if I keep my promise to myself not to do it again. Once is a mistake; twice.. well that could be a habit forming! The outcome today is that there is now mutual friendship in fellowship with him & boundaries are being respected. I had to learn the hard way & I'm glad there wasn't too much expense but I would certainly commend for everyone here to exercise appropriate bonds well & respect where the limits may lie where there could be any risk of attraction. A.A. is a healing faculty not a dating agency tho there may be those who have genuinely found love after working their programs well. Thanks for bringing this up, Lisa. I'm not proud to admit what I've said here but I have wanted to share this part of my story in a meeting way with my fellowship so that I can be free by my confession & move on too. I trust this site & have never had any such trouble here. I hope my story helps someone else. Thanks for letting me share, Danielle x
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Progress not perfection.. & Practice makes Progress!
someone who's 1 step ahead of all the other 13th steppers
It is a problem, irony is when one (13th stepper) of them gets their feeling hurt and drinks over it. Sleezy behavior like that will lead to it eventually.
