I had to go back and find out what this was all about.
MY THOUGHTS: Both Jeanne and Doll (and even Wren) were all on the right path when
speaking of sin and the sinner.
According to pyschological/dictionary definition a conscience is that sense within a human
that urges/prompts one to do right/what is good.
Sinner is one who commits a wrongdoing/sin. The difference is sin is ALWAYS wrong.
The sinner, however, by the conscience can correct his/her actions/words. They can be
forgiven (either by themselves or if the offense is against someone else by that other person.)
The conscience is ALWAYS there. As far as I am able to understand this, this is a fact.
Very often when one goes against their conscience there are uneasy feelings "felt"/sensed.
One can repeat the offense at times and be unable to recognize it is an offense. I was taught
that God/HP is good/righteous and that He gave us the ability (free will) to choose. I myself
associate that still small voice (conscience) with the voice of the God of my understanding.
By human facilties we can neither see, hear, or touch either yet I believe in the existence of each and that they are one in the same. The God I believe in wants what is good for me Yet He gave me the gift of free will-----I can choose HIS way or I can choose MY way. He will
never take that ability away. I can choose to ignore that prompting within, thus committing sin/wrongdoing. Sometimes I never even realized that some things were wrong and repeated the offense. God who wants for me what is the best for me will always "guide"
in the right direction. I, however, have to "listen" to those promptings. Very often that
is what a counselor/pyschologist/pyschiatrist/or even a religious is speaking of when they
say "quiet the mind" and when one does he/she can "sense" what is the right course of action or the right words to say for him/her.
In AA no one is to be pushing but rather give each member from the new to the old
timers choices. The choices the 12 steps lay out are for the good of each and every member. they are put out there to help the individuals to "think" "ponder" "meditate"
upon the good in the world and how best each can achieve it....
Personally I took no offense to what Jeannie said, to what Doll replied or to Wren's
input. We are here to "learn" and grow. And we do this from the experiences, thoughts,
and input of others.......
Let us not forget that many the alcoholic has done some pretty shameful things or said
some really nasty things. Yet within something "led" him/her to AA and he/she were given
the opportunities to take control of his/her illness and in thus doing so became people who
inspired and were admired. Instead of being repulsed by their words and actions, they have
become mentors and teachers.
So yes, I feel, there is a difference. Sin is ALWAYS wrongdoing/wrongsaying. Sinner
may be doing these things but there is always opportunity to convert the negative into
positive/good. To me that is where the difference lays.
Hope you will come back, Jeannie.
As with Doll and Wren, you inspire and make me think.
Wishing you the best of sobriety,
Wanda