Alcoholics Anonymous

gonee · gonee

Sad to lose a 32 year old to alcoholism. Came to AA but remained in denial. Alcoholics Anonymous offers a life time solution to the problem of alcoholism, but few take it. People with other life threatening diseases easily accept their plan of recovery, but not with alcoholism.

whi9484 · whi9484

Hello everyone. Alcohol has completely ruined my life. How I'm not in jail or worse is nothing short of a miracle. I got pulled over this weekend and somehow the cop didn't arrest me. He just took my home, I couldn't believe it. The next morning I woke up with bruises from stumbling into my furnitur...

Angell · Angell

Hello all. I lost internet service for a long bit but I've got it back. Good to be back. I hope everyone is doing well. Oh, and I celebrated 22 years on Saturday. :)

betterthanyesterday52 · betterthanyesterday52

I thought yesterday was just the crappiest day for me. One thing happened which upset me. Then another and I felt depressed and drained most of the day. When my sponsor made up my list of character defects "angry" was not one of them. I realized today that I needed to add that to my list, as I hav...

Mike B. · Mike B.

May 14 "Sometimes I wonder if this illness isn't a gift rather than a problem."

Pythonpappy · Pythonpappy

Is he related to something infinite or not? That is the telling question of life.--Carl JungThe times that life works best are when we get out of the way and let the power work through us. The writer says of an inspired short story, "I didn't write this story; it seemed to write itself." After...

Zoomtopz · Zoomtopz

Thank God

BarbaraLu · BarbaraLu

How do you all handle a resentment that is justified and of no fault of the sponsee? Such as an verbally abusive, degrading mother? Or the case of a step father who physically molests the sponsee and a mother who turns a blind eye. These are currently two sponsee situations I am dealing with. I have be...

betterthanyesterday52 · betterthanyesterday52

343 for Me!

betterthanyesterday52 · betterthanyesterday52

Child, when do you think is the time to love somebody the most? When they done good and made things easy for everybody? Well then, you ain't through learning-because that ain't the time at all...when you starts measuring somebody, measure him right, child, measure him right. Make sure you done taken...

Pythonpappy · Pythonpappy

Welcome fiberfreak ... glad you found us ... please let us know a little about you ... Pappy

Pythonpappy · Pythonpappy

Having boundaries doesn't complicate life; boundaries simplify life.--Beyond CodependencyThere is a positive aspect to boundary setting. We learn to listen to ourselves and identify what hurt us and what we don't like. But we also learn to identify what feels good.When we are willing to take som...

Pythonpappy · Pythonpappy

I don't ask for the meaning of the song of a bird or the rising of the sun on a misty morning. There they are, and they are beautiful.Pete Hamill

Philipld · Philipld

Step 3 Made a decision to turn our will and our lives our to the care of God as we understood Him. If the writer of a textbook has an understanding of a word, but the reader of the book has a DIFFERENT understanding of the SAME word, then the information that comes through will be garbled and incomplete. The...

Pythonpappy · Pythonpappy

May 12, 2014Quote of the Week"Drinking gave me the feeling of a job well done without having done a thing." I remember a restaurant/bar in the rich neighborhood of Brentwood , CA I used to go to after work. I'd saddle up to the long, swank bar and order cocktails while I watched the successf...

Mike B. · Mike B.

May 13 "While I have years of sobriety, I really only have this day."

Pythonpappy · Pythonpappy

Every human being is a problem in search of a solution.--Ashley MontaguEach of us is a strong and fragile creature. We're always subject to forces outside our control, and we're learning steps for living that help us cope and rise above these problems. Our particular situation might seem special to...

Pythonpappy · Pythonpappy

If you're not riding the wave of change. You'll find yourself beneath it.Unknown -- Edited by Pythonpappy on Monday 12th of May 2014 04:32:55 PM

betterthanyesterday52 · betterthanyesterday52

Had a great Mother's Day. Went to see my mom and got along with her superbly. No second guessing, paranoid feelings about what she meant when she said something. It was wonderful. My daughter sent me an email last night wishing me a Happy Mom's Day and telling me she is proud of my sober time. Oh, and she en...

Philipld · Philipld

Step 2 Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. The chapter "We Agnostics", which begins on page 44, starts with a good review of Step 1: "In the preceding chapters you have learned something of alcoholism. We hope we have made clear the distinc...

blueorchid · blueorchid

What is the goal of recovering or recovered alkies? Is it complete abstinence from alcohol or is it moderation? I've read and heard various experiences with this.

blueorchid · blueorchid

Do recovering or reformed alcoholics substitute something else for the booze? I have known and heard about some people who begin using drugs, overeating or sugar drinks/ foods. Is this true.

gonee · gonee

It was on Mother's Day in 1935 that AA was formed by the meeting of Dr Bob and Bill W. providentially arranged by God, through Henrietta Sieberling and Anne Smith. The embryo of AA was conceived that day by two men sharing about their utter futility of their alcoholism. They shared for almost 5 hours. At...

Mike B. · Mike B.

May 12 "I'm still mystified by how I got sober, and the only answer that makes sense is that I stopped drinking through the grace of God. I was thinking about the difference between those of us who get sober and those who are still drinking, and I believe the difference is that we have accepted the...

pinkchip · pinkchip

He was 72 and an alcoholic. He latched on to a little bit of AA towards the end (in the last 3 years or so). His quality of sobriety was questionable because of being so doped up on meds that it still seemed like he was drunk much of the time and he half-assed it with no step work so he still flipped out period...

blueorchid · blueorchid

My name is Katie and I'm an alcoholic. I am a functional alcoholic looking to stop drinking. Coming on here for support.

betterthanyesterday52 · betterthanyesterday52

I have gone sugar crazy since being sober. Went through almost a pound of M&M's last night while watching a Lifetime movie. Had had a couple of pieces of fudge and brownies earlier and a bowl of Nutty Buddy Ice Cream. It is amazing I am not as big as the place I live in. I only eat one meal a day, so that may...

Pythonpappy · Pythonpappy

A Mother is not to be compared to any other person she is incomparable.African Proverb

Pythonpappy · Pythonpappy

Presence"C'mon. Hurry. Let's go," my friend said, shifting nervously from one foot to the other. I looked around. Another friend, Michael, had just walked into the room. I hadn't seen him for a while. I felt compelled to go over and talk to him, even though I didn't have anything important...

Zoomtopz · Zoomtopz

betterthanyesterday52 · betterthanyesterday52

This may qualify as being the silliest posting I have on this site. Just had a burning desire to share a dream I had for some reason, so here goes.... First of all I love sock monkeys. They are the stuffed animals people make out of socks (thus, the name--sock monkeys). Well, in my dream this woman was sel...

betterthanyesterday52 · betterthanyesterday52

I am planning on going to see my mom. It has been at least four years since I have seen her. When I was drinking I always thought about seeing her, however, I couldn't take the lectures I would get about my drinking. I called her sometimes (she never called me because either she was protecting herself or th...

Pythonpappy · Pythonpappy

Maturity doesn't come with age or intellectual wisdom, only with love.--Ruth CaseyWe may have thought being mature meant being "grown-up." This meant acting rationally, showing good judgment, no longer exhibiting childish behavior. It's doubtful that we ever considered the expre...

Pythonpappy · Pythonpappy

Rain and sun are to the flower as praise and encouragement are to the human spirit.Unknown

Pythonpappy · Pythonpappy

No matter what faces us an unhappy relationship, a serious operation or illness, a feeling of uselessness or helplessness it is vital to realize that there is a solution.We must not expect that the solution to our problem will bring us immediate peace of mind. Focusing our energies and emotions o...

Pythonpappy · Pythonpappy

Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass its about learning how to dance in the rain.Unknown

Mike B. · Mike B.

May 9 "How will I know if I've really hit my bottom?' I asked at my home group. 'When you stop digging,' they told me."

Pythonpappy · Pythonpappy

To speak ill of others is a dishonest way of praising ourselves.--Will DurantSometimes we say bad things about others. When we do this, it makes us look bad too. Our friends worry what we might say about them behind their backs. They're afraid to trust us. We become known as gossips.The things we say ab...

Pythonpappy · Pythonpappy

Growth itself contains the germ of happiness.Pearl S. Buck

bikerbill · bikerbill

Wednesday, after mum's funeral, after the post funeral bun fight, after the hour solitude driving to a meeting. best suit on and big james says 'eyup mate, was it court no 1 or no 2' and I reply no james, my mum's funeral. brutally, carelessly. The pain in his eyes showed how embarrased and hurt he wa...

Kodi · Kodi

Long story...I am still with my second wife I dearly love...the feeling is just not mutual now. I went to detox, which was more boring than anything, but I got clean. My wife and I hit another rough patch and though I am doing better, I started to hit the bottle again. I know my trigger. It is her and stress a...

Enigma · Enigma

Can someone share any ESH on how someone who was affected by my alcoholism. That doesn't drink. How do they recover. I mean how is it for them in recovery. What do they go through, what difficulties to they face in recovery. I know my part and the past. The BB focuses on the damage we did and what to expect. H...

Jerry F · Jerry F

I was toast Wednesday afternoon coming in from my business which is labor...sometimes fast and efficient and other times "HARD". Wednesday was a "Hard" one and I just couldn't make it the next mile to get home. Didn't have the moxie to make my own lunch and sit alone in my hous...

Philipld · Philipld

We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable. 1. Every natural instinct cries out against the idea of personal powerlessness (defects of the thinking mind.)2. We perceive that only through utter defeat are we able to take our first ste...

mandm · mandm

I was cleaning up my house as I am preparing to move, and I found an old journal, it was actually one of the many journals I started as an attempt to help myself recover. It goes " Its Jan 01 2013, I need to stop my drinking now, I need help, I cannot continue like this, I either have to stop drinking or ki...

Pythonpappy · Pythonpappy

Enjoy the little things, for one day you may look back and realize they were the big things.Robert Brault

Pythonpappy · Pythonpappy

Funny, ... when I got this, I thought of Phil ... the 'nut dude' here, ... LOL This is just for some 'comic relief' and in no way represents my view on 'life' ... just soo's you know ... LOL ...

mandm · mandm

http://www.juxtapoz.com/design/soviet-anti-alcohol-posters-from-the-1920s60s

Pythonpappy · Pythonpappy

God insists that we ask, not because He needs to know our situation, but because we need the spiritual discipline of asking.-- Catherine MarshallAn omniscient God must know what we desire before we ask. God knows that what we really need most is reliance on God. And how do we develop reliance? Like mos...

Mike B. · Mike B.

May 8 "Should our present success continue, people will commence to assert that AA is a brand new way of life, maybe a new religion, capable of saving the world. We shall be told it is our bounden duty to show modern society how it ought to live ... "Fortunately most of us are convinced that th...

Topic		Started By	Replies	Views	Last Post
	Denial. (Preview) Sad to lose a 32 year old to alcoholism. Came to AA but remained in denial. Alcoholics Anonymous offers a life time solution to the problem of alcoholism, but few take it. People with other life threatening diseases easily accept their plan of recovery, but not with alcoholism.	gonee	3	757	May 14, 2014 by Pythonpappy
	My story/Help (Preview) Hello everyone. Alcohol has completely ruined my life. How I'm not in jail or worse is nothing short of a miracle. I got pulled over this weekend and somehow the cop didn't arrest me. He just took my home, I couldn't believe it. The next morning I woke up with bruises from stumbling into my furnitur...	whi9484	13	563	May 14, 2014 by Tasha
	Good moment all (Preview) Hello all. I lost internet service for a long bit but I've got it back. Good to be back. I hope everyone is doing well. Oh, and I celebrated 22 years on Saturday. :)	Angell	12	440	May 14, 2014 by Tasha
	Anger (Preview) I thought yesterday was just the crappiest day for me. One thing happened which upset me. Then another and I felt depressed and drained most of the day. When my sponsor made up my list of character defects "angry" was not one of them. I realized today that I needed to add that to my list, as I hav...	betterthanyesterday52	7	606	May 14, 2014 by Stepchild
	Grapevine (Preview) May 14 "Sometimes I wonder if this illness isn't a gift rather than a problem."	Mike B.	2	191	May 14, 2014 by Pythonpappy
	Today's Gift - 5/14 (Preview) Is he related to something infinite or not? That is the telling question of life.--Carl JungThe times that life works best are when we get out of the way and let the power work through us. The writer says of an inspired short story, "I didn't write this story; it seemed to write itself." After...	Pythonpappy	1	225	May 14, 2014 by betterthanyesterday52
	certainly (Preview) Thank God	Zoomtopz	2	268	May 14, 2014 by Pythonpappy
	Step 4 with a sponsee (Preview) How do you all handle a resentment that is justified and of no fault of the sponsee? Such as an verbally abusive, degrading mother? Or the case of a step father who physically molests the sponsee and a mother who turns a blind eye. These are currently two sponsee situations I am dealing with. I have be...	BarbaraLu	16	6397	May 14, 2014 by Fyne Spirit
	IT WORKS! How Many Days of Sobriety Do You Have? (Preview) 343 for Me!	betterthanyesterday52	23	832	May 13, 2014 by Fyne Spirit
	When You Measure Somebody Quote I LOVE THIS (Preview) Child, when do you think is the time to love somebody the most? When they done good and made things easy for everybody? Well then, you ain't through learning-because that ain't the time at all...when you starts measuring somebody, measure him right, child, measure him right. Make sure you done taken...	betterthanyesterday52	2	290	May 13, 2014 by Mike D
	Welcome to MIP fiberfreak (Preview) Welcome fiberfreak ... glad you found us ... please let us know a little about you ... Pappy	Pythonpappy	0	236	May 13, 2014 by Pythonpappy
	Today's Gift - 5/13 (Preview) Having boundaries doesn't complicate life; boundaries simplify life.--Beyond CodependencyThere is a positive aspect to boundary setting. We learn to listen to ourselves and identify what hurt us and what we don't like. But we also learn to identify what feels good.When we are willing to take som...	Pythonpappy	1	184	May 13, 2014 by Mike B.
	Sunrise Quote - 5/13 (Preview) I don't ask for the meaning of the song of a bird or the rising of the sun on a misty morning. There they are, and they are beautiful.Pete Hamill	Pythonpappy	1	233	May 13, 2014 by Mike B.
	Step three (Preview) Step 3 Made a decision to turn our will and our lives our to the care of God as we understood Him. If the writer of a textbook has an understanding of a word, but the reader of the book has a DIFFERENT understanding of the SAME word, then the information that comes through will be garbled and incomplete. The...	Philipld	5	535	May 13, 2014 by Philipld
	Wisdom of the Rooms (Preview) May 12, 2014Quote of the Week"Drinking gave me the feeling of a job well done without having done a thing." I remember a restaurant/bar in the rich neighborhood of Brentwood , CA I used to go to after work. I'd saddle up to the long, swank bar and order cocktails while I watched the successf...	Pythonpappy	3	272	May 13, 2014 by Pythonpappy
	Grapevine (Preview) May 13 "While I have years of sobriety, I really only have this day."	Mike B.	4	210	May 13, 2014 by Pythonpappy
	Today's Gift - 5/12 (Preview) Every human being is a problem in search of a solution.--Ashley MontaguEach of us is a strong and fragile creature. We're always subject to forces outside our control, and we're learning steps for living that help us cope and rise above these problems. Our particular situation might seem special to...	Pythonpappy	1	201	May 13, 2014 by betterthanyesterday52
	Sunrise Quote - 5/12 (Preview) If you're not riding the wave of change. You'll find yourself beneath it.Unknown -- Edited by Pythonpappy on Monday 12th of May 2014 04:32:55 PM	Pythonpappy	2	185	May 13, 2014 by betterthanyesterday52
	Can Someone Please Come and Kick My Butt? (Preview) Had a great Mother's Day. Went to see my mom and got along with her superbly. No second guessing, paranoid feelings about what she meant when she said something. It was wonderful. My daughter sent me an email last night wishing me a Happy Mom's Day and telling me she is proud of my sober time. Oh, and she en...	betterthanyesterday52	20	509	May 13, 2014 by betterthanyesterday52
	Step Two (Preview) Step 2 Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. The chapter "We Agnostics", which begins on page 44, starts with a good review of Step 1: "In the preceding chapters you have learned something of alcoholism. We hope we have made clear the distinc...	Philipld	6	468	May 12, 2014 by Stepchild
	Is recovery for abstinence or moderation? (Preview) What is the goal of recovering or recovered alkies? Is it complete abstinence from alcohol or is it moderation? I've read and heard various experiences with this.	blueorchid	14	597	May 12, 2014 by Stepchild
	substitute for booze (Preview) Do recovering or reformed alcoholics substitute something else for the booze? I have known and heard about some people who begin using drugs, overeating or sugar drinks/ foods. Is this true.	blueorchid	10	649	May 12, 2014 by Enigma
	Mother's day & AA. (Preview) It was on Mother's Day in 1935 that AA was formed by the meeting of Dr Bob and Bill W. providentially arranged by God, through Henrietta Sieberling and Anne Smith. The embryo of AA was conceived that day by two men sharing about their utter futility of their alcoholism. They shared for almost 5 hours. At...	gonee	8	1681	May 12, 2014 by CritterBoo
	Grapevine (Preview) May 12 "I'm still mystified by how I got sober, and the only answer that makes sense is that I stopped drinking through the grace of God. I was thinking about the difference between those of us who get sober and those who are still drinking, and I believe the difference is that we have accepted the...	Mike B.	2	200	May 12, 2014 by Pythonpappy
	Partner's father died (Preview) He was 72 and an alcoholic. He latched on to a little bit of AA towards the end (in the last 3 years or so). His quality of sobriety was questionable because of being so doped up on meds that it still seemed like he was drunk much of the time and he half-assed it with no step work so he still flipped out period...	pinkchip	9	501	May 12, 2014 by Tasha
	New to AA (Preview) My name is Katie and I'm an alcoholic. I am a functional alcoholic looking to stop drinking. Coming on here for support.	blueorchid	9	536	May 12, 2014 by betterthanyesterday52
	Sweet Alert (Preview) I have gone sugar crazy since being sober. Went through almost a pound of M&M's last night while watching a Lifetime movie. Had had a couple of pieces of fudge and brownies earlier and a bowl of Nutty Buddy Ice Cream. It is amazing I am not as big as the place I live in. I only eat one meal a day, so that may...	betterthanyesterday52	16	538	May 11, 2014 by Pythonpappy
	Sunrise Quote - 5/11 (Preview) A Mother is not to be compared to any other person she is incomparable.African Proverb	Pythonpappy	0	180	May 11, 2014 by Pythonpappy
	Today's Gift - 5/11 (Preview) Presence"C'mon. Hurry. Let's go," my friend said, shifting nervously from one foot to the other. I looked around. Another friend, Michael, had just walked into the room. I hadn't seen him for a while. I felt compelled to go over and talk to him, even though I didn't have anything important...	Pythonpappy	0	208	May 11, 2014 by Pythonpappy
	er um (Preview)	Zoomtopz	0	287	May 11, 2014 by Zoomtopz
	Sock Monkeys And Reading Minds (Preview) This may qualify as being the silliest posting I have on this site. Just had a burning desire to share a dream I had for some reason, so here goes.... First of all I love sock monkeys. They are the stuffed animals people make out of socks (thus, the name--sock monkeys). Well, in my dream this woman was sel...	betterthanyesterday52	24	1769	May 11, 2014 by betterthanyesterday52
	Working on Relationships After the Booze is Gone (Preview) I am planning on going to see my mom. It has been at least four years since I have seen her. When I was drinking I always thought about seeing her, however, I couldn't take the lectures I would get about my drinking. I called her sometimes (she never called me because either she was protecting herself or th...	betterthanyesterday52	11	541	May 10, 2014 by Stepchild
	Today's Gift - 5/10 (Preview) Maturity doesn't come with age or intellectual wisdom, only with love.--Ruth CaseyWe may have thought being mature meant being "grown-up." This meant acting rationally, showing good judgment, no longer exhibiting childish behavior. It's doubtful that we ever considered the expre...	Pythonpappy	1	244	May 10, 2014 by Philipld
	Sunrise Quote - 5/10 (Preview) Rain and sun are to the flower as praise and encouragement are to the human spirit.Unknown	Pythonpappy	0	223	May 10, 2014 by Pythonpappy
	Today's Gift - 5/8 (Preview) No matter what faces us an unhappy relationship, a serious operation or illness, a feeling of uselessness or helplessness it is vital to realize that there is a solution.We must not expect that the solution to our problem will bring us immediate peace of mind. Focusing our energies and emotions o...	Pythonpappy	1	250	May 10, 2014 by betterthanyesterday52
	Sunrise Quote - 5/8 (Preview) Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass its about learning how to dance in the rain.Unknown	Pythonpappy	1	210	May 10, 2014 by betterthanyesterday52
	Grapevine (Preview) May 9 "How will I know if I've really hit my bottom?' I asked at my home group. 'When you stop digging,' they told me."	Mike B.	4	214	May 10, 2014 by betterthanyesterday52
	Today's Gift - 5/9 (Preview) To speak ill of others is a dishonest way of praising ourselves.--Will DurantSometimes we say bad things about others. When we do this, it makes us look bad too. Our friends worry what we might say about them behind their backs. They're afraid to trust us. We become known as gossips.The things we say ab...	Pythonpappy	1	312	May 10, 2014 by betterthanyesterday52
	Sunrise Quote - 5/9 (Preview) Growth itself contains the germ of happiness.Pearl S. Buck	Pythonpappy	3	204	May 10, 2014 by betterthanyesterday52
	it does not take much to lift me up. (Preview) Wednesday, after mum's funeral, after the post funeral bun fight, after the hour solitude driving to a meeting. best suit on and big james says 'eyup mate, was it court no 1 or no 2' and I reply no james, my mum's funeral. brutally, carelessly. The pain in his eyes showed how embarrased and hurt he wa...	bikerbill	4	534	May 10, 2014 by Jerry F
	Newbie (Preview) Long story...I am still with my second wife I dearly love...the feeling is just not mutual now. I went to detox, which was more boring than anything, but I got clean. My wife and I hit another rough patch and though I am doing better, I started to hit the bottle again. I know my trigger. It is her and stress a...	Kodi	10	565	May 10, 2014 by Jerry F
	Seeing it from their perspective (Preview) Can someone share any ESH on how someone who was affected by my alcoholism. That doesn't drink. How do they recover. I mean how is it for them in recovery. What do they go through, what difficulties to they face in recovery. I know my part and the past. The BB focuses on the damage we did and what to expect. H...	Enigma	7	497	May 9, 2014 by Mr_David
	Mickey D Magic (Preview) I was toast Wednesday afternoon coming in from my business which is labor...sometimes fast and efficient and other times "HARD". Wednesday was a "Hard" one and I just couldn't make it the next mile to get home. Didn't have the moxie to make my own lunch and sit alone in my hous...	Jerry F	4	422	May 9, 2014 by Jerry F
	Step One (Preview) We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable. 1. Every natural instinct cries out against the idea of personal powerlessness (defects of the thinking mind.)2. We perceive that only through utter defeat are we able to take our first ste...	Philipld	5	364	May 9, 2014 by Zoomtopz
	Found an old note (Preview) I was cleaning up my house as I am preparing to move, and I found an old journal, it was actually one of the many journals I started as an attempt to help myself recover. It goes " Its Jan 01 2013, I need to stop my drinking now, I need help, I cannot continue like this, I either have to stop drinking or ki...	mandm	3	364	May 8, 2014 by Jerry F
	Sunrise Quote - 5/7 (Preview) Enjoy the little things, for one day you may look back and realize they were the big things.Robert Brault	Pythonpappy	2	228	May 8, 2014 by Pythonpappy
	5 Interesting Rules for Life (Preview) Funny, ... when I got this, I thought of Phil ... the 'nut dude' here, ... LOL This is just for some 'comic relief' and in no way represents my view on 'life' ... just soo's you know ... LOL ...	Pythonpappy	4	332	May 8, 2014 by Pythonpappy
	anti alcohol posters (Preview) http://www.juxtapoz.com/design/soviet-anti-alcohol-posters-from-the-1920s60s	mandm	3	363	May 8, 2014 by betterthanyesterday52
	Today's Gift - 5/7 (Preview) God insists that we ask, not because He needs to know our situation, but because we need the spiritual discipline of asking.-- Catherine MarshallAn omniscient God must know what we desire before we ask. God knows that what we really need most is reliance on God. And how do we develop reliance? Like mos...	Pythonpappy	1	199	May 8, 2014 by betterthanyesterday52
	Grapevine (Preview) May 8 "Should our present success continue, people will commence to assert that AA is a brand new way of life, maybe a new religion, capable of saving the world. We shall be told it is our bounden duty to show modern society how it ought to live ... "Fortunately most of us are convinced that th...	Mike B.	1	242	May 8, 2014 by betterthanyesterday52
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