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hopefulone · Senior Member

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Toad · Senior Member

Easy Girl,
Try not to throw the baby out with the bath water.
This to shall pass.
Thank you for the share.
Toad

Tanin · MIP Old Timer

hopefulone wrote:
horrible week.
have had two friends in the rooms. one got upset whenever I couldn't be there for her whenever she expected me to. a newcomer i spent alot of time with....calls, texts, coffees. She would get so upset with me whenever I had plans or had to cancel meetings with her (which I rarely did, but sometimes couldn't be helped). She got very dependent on me and although I would suggest that she contact her sponsor, she said she didn't trust her as much as me. She also bad mouthed her sponsor to me and I told her maybe she should look for another sponsor. She singled me out in two shares when I was sitting in the meeting about how much I hurt her. Although my name wasn't used, she gave enough info that I and at least two others knew it was about me. When I talked to her about it, I was told that her shares were her own and she could share anything she wanted to. I told her please do not text and call me and it was better that we limited our conversations to the rooms. I kept speaking. It is hard for me not to do so. I noticed that people in the rooms who had been very nice to me throughout my sobriety stopped speaking to me-I would say "hi, how are you" and not receive anything but a blank stare. I sent texts to a few and most were unanswered.
Now I had to end a relationship with another woman I have been friends with. She continually put me down (called me b****--she said in fun and I went along with it because as they say in AA no one can hurt our feelings unless we let them, she called me "lame", and said other things which really hurt me. The relationship was really one sided. I have shared about that on another post. So I get this really hateful message yesterday about how much she has never been treated this badly by any friend since high school. (It has been decades since we have been in school). She told me I hurt her very deeply. All I did was become unavailable to her. I never told anyone in the rooms except my sponsor and someone who is in another state about what happened between us, and didn't tell everything, because I didn't want to badmouth her. Same as the first woman above.) Because this woman had bad mouthed others who have "crossed" her in AA, and since I have already had to quit my home group and those meetings because of the first woman and not wanting to sit through "shares" about myself, and these were the only other meetings I have been going to, I now do not feel comfortable going to them.
I have done a lot of service work to try and help other AA'ers. It has kept me sober. I spent alot of time and money making treats for as many as 3 meetings a week for over 2 years and got told if my things were "not as good" as other things, looked "funny", etc. and the real winner......that I was doing it only for attention by more than one. Service work gets turned into a dirty word and I am made to feel like I have to question my own motivations. Now I am afraid to get close to anyone in the rooms. If it were only a couple of people who chose to "defriend" me, I could deal with that. It is more than that. It is like I have a plaque and not many folks want to get near me. I am scared to go up to anyone and scared to share. I got asked to do the chips the other night and I was so self conscious and so afraid. I used to chair meetings and there is no way I can do that again feeling like there are so many who don't really care for me.
So I am thinking about quitting AA. I end up feeling worse instead of better after the meetings.I sent a text to someone last night. this was another person who I have been friends with throughout my sobriety. No answer. This person got up and left the meeting I went to yesterday right after I got there.
I know the drill....don't let people, places and things affect us. I guess I am one of the sick ones who just don't have what it takes and will never get better. I have always been a people pleaser and always have cared whether or not people like me. It has always bothered me to think that someone is mad at me and I have apologized even for things I didn't do to people just to make peace.
You folks got it, I never will and I guess all my postings about how great AA is for me have been lies. Goodbye.

-- Edited by hopefulone on Thursday 24th of September 2015 09:48:36 AM

H1, I am sorry you have had a tough time with the people in AA this week. You have made several mentions in your posts about having various difficulties with them at other times.

Have you talked to your sponsor about these issues lately? Seems like that would be a very appropriate action. Your sponsor is probably familiar with the meetings you go to and the people who go to them.

I suggest especially that you talk to your sponsor immediately about your decision to quit AA. You may be being hasty about that.

But if you insist on departing from the fellowship, it doesn't mean that you can't have another recovery program to follow. There is nothing good about going back to drinking over a few slights that you might have experienced at meetings.

Hang in there,H1, and keep sharing here. We have other people who have moved beyond AA and who still post their experience, strength and hope on MIP.

davep12and12 · MIP Old Timer

When our head is telling us things like "maybe I should just quit AA", for whatever reason, and regardless of how valid that reason may or may not seem, the thing to look at is this:

When we honestly look at these thoughts about taking this action, have we also thought about taking steps to put something else in the place of AA that will work to help us stay sober? Or is our head just telling us to 'quit AA' with no thought about what we are going to do INSTEAD of AA?

Because if it's the latter, that's a huge red flag that our alcoholism is taking advantage of whatever brought this situation about, and our alcoholism is coaxing us away from not just AA, but everything else that may help us stay sober, and leading us back to drinking. Alcoholism is cunning, baffling, and powerful. It is a very skilled and crafty liar.

Personally, in 26 years of sobriety I've never found anything that might help me stay sober anywhere near as well as AA does, but of course that's for everyone to decide for themselves. However, regardless of what you decide to do, I would encourage you to stay vigilant and honest with yourself about what your own head is telling you to do and not do, and remain very aware of whether those thought and actions are keeping you away from a drink or taking you closer to a drink.

And resentments are the number one killer. I encourage you not to let some inconsiderate or unhealthy actions of a couple of people cause you to listen to some alcoholic ideas in your own head and take you back toward drinking. That doesn't mean you have to like those people. It doesn't mean you have to be a door mat and put up with unhealthy behavior from others. Just don't give that stuff the power to take everything away from you that can keep you sober.

Tanin · MIP Old Timer

hopefulone wrote:
Too late.
I actually did contact my sponsor last night. I have a great sponsor. (or had)

Very short and sweet response...same thing we hear in AA meetings all the time. I have, as I have said before, a male sponsor. I was advised over and over by more than one to get a female sponsor. Only problem with that is trust. Most everyone of my female friends in the past, ended up betraying my trust. Someone tells me something, I can keep it to myself. My life has never been that dull that I felt the need to carry anything a friend told me. Unfortunately, it has not worked the other way for me. So I have had a problem trusting women. I know it is probably not fair. It is just that way I am. Even my mom, I have told things to and she has said later on..."well, I hope you don't mind, I told such and such..." these have been extremely personal issues. So I got a "safe" male sponsor. He has been great. Since I haven't wanted to chase him away with all this "complex" female issues, I have held back confiding in him. I know that is not how it works....I just did the best I could with what I had.

Anyway, I am thoroughly convinced that AA really does work. It truly does for certain people. "If you are willing to work the Steps" (I was downright eager to) and "want what we have" (absolutely!) and you know the rest....I worked harder on staying sober and helping others than I have ever done on anything in my life! Well, maybe except parenting--and if you have read any of my posts, I sucked at that--my daughter doesn't have anything to do with me!

I am also convinced, that AA works for those who have a very thick skin...people who are not as sensitive to others....for one thing. I have been since I was a child--one of the most sensitive people--if not the most sensitive. I care about others. I care about what people think about me. And I have empathy for others hurting. (Hell, I cried at that Native American in the canoe commercial everytime I saw it). I would have to literally not give a damn about anyone to toughen my skin enough for other people not to have any affect on me. And I am not sure I ever want to reach that point because I overall--am a pretty nice person. A sick one--yes, but I feel that, at least for me, to reach the point of never ever letting other people have any affect on me at all would mean that I stop caring about other people.

Sure I will probably not live as long as those of you who "get it"; have "what it takes", but I will opt for being more emotional, than less emotional any day.
I am sorry to go on and on. I have already lost friends because in my reaching out to others, have divulged that I am no longer "serious" about my sobriety.
I'm sorry. I really am.

What did your sponsor say?

justadrunk · MIP Old Timer

Love you Grace.

Tanin · MIP Old Timer

hopefulone wrote:
It's all over....my 2 plus years of sobriety shot to hell.
I appreciate the responses and concern. Instead of feeling the past wonderfully giddy and numbing the senses of any problems feelings which I remembered from my drinking days, I am feeling guilt and remorse. Instead of feeling good and confident about myself, I am feeling weak and confused.
Anyway, I know that it was hard for me, as a recovering alcoholic, to be around a drunk, when I went to try and help another alcoholic who was actively drinking. Very annoying. I don't want to do that to anyone else. I am sorry. Being an honest person, I have to figure out a way to tell my mom. Probably shot any chances of my daughter coming back into my life. I got my hopes up too much when she started keeping in touch with me and sent me that long letter. She even told me that she knew that others thought she was a b****, but she just couldn't risk me going out again, and was not ready to see me. That was after I had a year of sobriety. So I kept thinking to myself, just a little more sobriety time....nothing.
I will have to say September's are the worst month for me. I lost my second child when she was 2 days old. it was a senseless thing--never should of happened. Every year, in September, I have been very depressed. My ex even told me in an email today that he had been depressed this month, then he told me he remembered that our baby died and that I have always been a mess this month. I told him I know--I remember.

I am in AA's eyes, a loser....or at least that I don't have "what it takes".

-- Edited by hopefulone on Thursday 24th of September 2015 07:02:50 PM

Just. Don't. Drink.

Baba Louie · Senior Member

Tomorrow is a new day.

davep12and12 · MIP Old Timer

Hopefulone, I think I do know how you are feeling. Although I have 26 years of sobriety now, I did have a few relapses before that during the first year or two that I was attending meetings. My last one, in 1988, was a very brief one-day relapse which, at first, left me terrified and wondering what would happen to me next - would I tell anyone? Would I get back into AA, or was this the beginning of the end for me? But by the end of that night I already KNEW that I wanted sobriety, and I had a better understanding of STEP ONE. I clearly saw what that voice of alcoholism in my head had been doing, and what my alcoholism was trying to do to me, and what my life would be if it succeeded, and I KNEW that I wanted to LIVE, and live SOBER, more than anything.

I certainly don't wish a relapse on anyone for any reason, and it's certainly not necessary to relapse in order to 'get' the program. But since I WAS able to get right back into AA the next day, that relapse, for me, ended up being a VERY "cheap lesson". It could have dragged on for years, and for the rest of my life.

But after that day, there was no question in my mind about the fact that I truly was an alcoholic, and there was no question about what that meant, and no question about the fact that I am someone who cannot safely drink or use mind altering substances like a normal person. I very clearly do not possess the ability to control and enjoy my drinking. And I understood "the insanity of the first drink" - it isn't referring to the insanity that happens AFTER we take that first drink, it is referring to the insanity that was going on in our heads which LED UP to that first drink, and managed to convince us to do something that is obviously insane and self-destructive, even though we were technically sober at the time we made the decision to drink. THAT is the insanity of alcoholism.

All of that stuff in the first several pages of "Chapter Three - More About Alcoholism" had finally made the journey from my head to my heart. I encourage you to grab your Big Book and read those pages.

I'm sorry to hear you fell out of the lifeboat, but there are lots of people in AA who are reaching out to help pull you back in to safety. If you keep reaching out to let them, this relapse can be a 'cheap lesson' for you that you never ever have to repeat again.

P.S. - also glad to hear the wine was crap : )

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

Oh my God, ... a lot can happen here in 12 hours ... ... ...

Today, my son needed me, his neighbor(an active alcoholic) needed me, and I somehow managed, with God's help, to make it without too much physical pain ... 'Thank you Lord' ... now I come here and find another of my best friends needed me ...

Grace ... ... ... I would like for you to h e a r and absorb this song ... it's contains the message I've been trying to spread for a while now ... with you in mind ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChPAoacVen4

Love you and God Bless,

Roger(Pappy)

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

H1, ... you're only human like the rest of us ... and many of us know exactly what you're going through ... the main thing is it sounds as though you're thinking has come back around to doing what you know needs to be done(getting back to a meeting) ...

I will not say I'm 'shocked'... I've seen this sort of thing too many times and even done it a few times myself ... and I wouldn't be practicing our AA principles if I couldn't forgive your actions ... as humans, we are weak ... and sometimes we make bad judgments ... such is life ...

You have my prayers for the strength to see through this horrible disease which IS cunning, baffling, and powerful ... please learn to love yourself so you can become lovable to those you love ... you DO have the tools ... use them ...

I Love you, and God Bless,
Pappy

Tanin · MIP Old Timer

Pythonpappy wrote:
... I've seen this sort of thing too many times and even done it a few times myself ... and I wouldn't be practicing our AA principles if I couldn't forgive your actions ...

I'm curious, pappy. What is it that you have to "forgive" H1 for?

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

Morn'n Pickle, ...

H1 and I have a special relationship that far exceeds the typical members of this board(I've never met her so it may not be what you think) ... I know she is feeling horrible for what she allowed to happen ... and if she's anything like the person I believe her to be, she's having a mountain load of trouble forgiving herself for this recent little indiscretion ... So, to help ease her thoughts of the consequences and let her know that I forgive her for perhaps not living up to my expectations, I want her to feel comfortable to forgive herself and 'get back to work' on working her program ...

She knows what I'm trying to say ... others here???, maybe not ... the point being that I follow the program taught in another BB that teaches faith, hope, and love ... the greatest of which is Love ... so she knows that there is nothing she could do to change my feelings ...

Hope that answers your question ...

Love ya and God Bless,
Pappy

GreyGirl · Member

Sending many good thoughts and prayers to you, hopefulone, on this new day. *hug*

Fyne Spirit · MIP Old Timer

hopefulone wrote:

Sure I will probably not live as long as those of you who "get it"; have "what it takes",

Hi H1,

I am sorry to hear of your misfortunes. As I followed your thread I was reminded of a time resentment almost shut the door on AA for me too, and that would have been a death sentence for me.

The whole reason I came to AA was that I did not have "what it takes", to live sober, to live happily in this world. I would imagine most alcoholics come to AA for exctly the same reason. Recovery starts with the admission we don't have what it takes. Surrender, powerlessness, complete failure of our own resources seem to be essential prerequisites to that spiritual experience that brings about recovery. For me the very best time to recover was when things looked their worst.

My last drink, looking to control and enjoy (ha ha!) put the cork in the bottle for me. I came back the next day (well four days later, the length of the binge) and attacked the AA program with absolutely no reservations. I held nothing back, kept no secrets (though I was discrete at meetings and chose my friends carefully) followed all the suggestions laid out in the book and still do. I never drank again.

There is no reason this should not be the case for you too. You are in a position to have the best possible start to a permanent recovery. I can't help feeling God has better things in mind for you. God bless.

Tanin · MIP Old Timer

Well, Pappy, I see where you area headed. But I just can't recall right now any AA principles that say we can or even should "forgive" a fellow for having a slip or relapse. To "forgive" means to stop feeling angry or resentful at somone for doing a wrong.

H1 committed no wrong. A slip/relapse is not a sin. No forgiveness is appropriate under AA principles as far as I know. To use that kind of language places more pressure on a person who has slipped since it confirms that they have transgressed against someone or AA at large.

If you have placed certain expectations upon H1 to remain in good standing with either you or AA, I have to wonder where the basis for establishing such expectations comes from in AA. Isn't it part of the wisdom of AA that all members are equal--regardless of their experiences? If so, how can it be justified to give one member the authority to "forgive" a slip/relapse? According to Bill W. there can be no requirement for an AA member to not drink:

"About this slip business - I would not be too discouraged. I think you are suffering a great deal from a needless guilt. For some reason or other, the Lord has laid out tougher paths for some of us, and I guess you are treading one of them. God is not asking us to be successful. He is only asking us to try to be. That, you are surely doing. So I would not stay away from the program through any feeling of discouragement or shame.

As most of us surely know, a person who has a slip is often already feeling guilt and shame. Needlessly. Seems to me that "forgiving" someone can only convince a person that he or she has done something to feel guilty and ashamed about. Not good, even if unintentional. The same would be true, I think, whether it involves a regular or special relationship. Even if it were sponsor/sponsee.

I am glad that H1 is back to meetings right away. I am glad she is in contact in her sponsor and that she is sharing here on MIP. All of the sharing in this thread may just help all of us stay sober today.

Tanin · MIP Old Timer

Sounds like you're making progress, H1. That's great.
Sometimes the expectations of others which we concoct...turn out to be wrong. Very wrong.

When's your next AA meeting? Is it possible for you to go to a meeting daily for a while?

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

Hey Tanin, I'm not sure why you wish to make a big issue out of my desire to help a sister having trouble ... maybe I could have worded my concerns for her in a different fashion? ... one that suited you? ... I was just trying to put H1 at ease to get back 'on track' with her recovery ... I KNEW she would feel pain for what this situation would do to me ... and I wanted her to know that I have been through these situations before and that it does no good to chastise, or 'get on' to someone, for being weak(human) ...

The MOST important message I was trying to convey was that I was okay and that this did not change the love I have in my heart for her ...

You can think what you will about me, I personally don't care, nor should I ... what other people think of me is NONE of my business ... I only concern myself with my love and relationship with God, my higher power ... Tanin, I love you brother, but dag gummit if you don't make it difficult sometimes ... I know you have a higher intelligence than I, but just know that my motives are/were pure in heart ... no matter the words I used ... H1 one knows that ...

Love ya and God bless,
Pappy

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

I'm sorry, but just the thought of the messages over the past two years, and it made me chuckle ... ... ... yeah Pickle, PM your email address to her ... I dare you, LMAO ... ... ...

No, I'm really just kidding ... it is my desire to help anyone who asks for help to get sober ... for that, I am responsible if I wish to work the program myself ... and the journey that follows in trying to help someone out can be quite uh, lets say bumpy, at times ... ... ... the details are not important, but the quality of their recovery is ... so, I try my best ... and I do this for them, not for the recognition ...

and I really wish all this stuff had remained anonymous ...

I forgive you Pickle ...

Baba Louie · Senior Member

I'm proud of you, Pappy.

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

Thanks for your comment Baba, like you, I'm only here to see if I can help others with less sobriety AND enrich my own ... ... ...

Lord willing, He'll assist me in saying the right things at the right time ... I want to enjoy my sobriety, not make it a struggle of butting heads with others ... My intention is to express an attitude that has a positive influence on those visiting this board and those who see me in person on a daily basis ...

Baba, your posts have been inspiring to me, and for that, I am grateful ...

Love you man and God Bless,
Pappy

Tanin · MIP Old Timer

hopefulone wrote:
I am, Tanin. The hardest ones were the ones I went to yesterday.

And I know what Pappy means. And sometimes I am grateful I am not all that smart myself, although I do have a bad habit of picking apart what others mean and trying to figure it out, I know Pappy.....He knows me better than I know myself. In fact, Pappy is an expert of knowing how true that is about me picking apart words, because I have gone to him so many times and the poor man has been extremely patient with me...I want to call him "Saint Pappy" sometimes. He has told me more than once to stop trying and figure out what other people mean and the important thing is that I do and say things that I know (or try to know for me, cause I don't always "know") are right for me. Keep my side of the street clean and worry about myself and let the others keep their side of the street clean sorta thing. I guess I forgot his words the day I drank, or just put them out of my mind. I think I have posted on here more than once if it weren't for Pappy, I would have gone out....well, that happened, anyway. It would not have mattered probably because that day I think my mind was so screwy, I was going to drink no matter what.

I know your intentions are looking out for me, Tanin, but you better be careful though...if you seem too concerned about me.....I may start messaging you instead of Pappy so much. He probably could use a break, but I really don't think you or many others would have put up with me and my many many longggggg messages and bs like this man has done. However, if you think you can handle it, let me know. I'll message you.

Good, keep up the good work, H1. I don't know how any AA can be too concerned about another AA's tough time but there is nothing stopping you from sending me a PM. I read all PMs and will usually reply fairly quickly. Over the years I've had some interesting conversations via PM with Pappy and others.

When's your next AA meeting, H1?

Tanin · MIP Old Timer

hopefulone wrote:
Thank you, Tanin.
I went to a great speaker meeting this morning. I will be going to meetings everyday this week....and listening. I had gotten to where I was tuning out some of the shares. I think if I heard someone share something I think I knew, my mind would start wandering. Now I am trying to hear every word.

How is it going, H1? How're the meetings?

Did you get some guidance from your sponsor?

Tanin · MIP Old Timer

hopefulone wrote:
I had to leave one early tonight....got too emotional and I still need work on that.
My sponsor is out of town......he knows I went out but I haven't wanted to bother him. He has a lot on his plate, too.

Seems like you're avoiding talking to your sponsor, H1?

Is that wise?

Fyne Spirit · MIP Old Timer

H1, the last time I "went out" it finally got into my thick skull that I was powerless and the only hope for me was a relationship with a power greater than myself of whom I had no knowledge. You could call it the gift of desperation I guess, but when I turned up on my sponsors doorstep with this gift, he was absolutely delighted to help. That was a long time ago.

Having had that same personality change and having been sponsoring for some time now, I understand why that was. There is absolutely nothing in this world as rewarding as the chance to work with an alcoholic who is ready to go to any lengths to get sober for good. To watch God work his magic is a privilege indeed.

I believe any sponsor who has had a spiritual experience as the result of these steps would jump at the chance to work with you. I certainly would.

Tanin · MIP Old Timer

hopefulone wrote:
Thank you, Tanin.
I went to a great speaker meeting this morning. I will be going to meetings everyday this week....and listening. I had gotten to where I was tuning out some of the shares. I think if I heard someone share something I think I knew, my mind would start wandering. Now I am trying to hear every word.
How is it going, H1? How're the meetings? Have you been able to attend a meeting every day this week as you stated you would?
Did you ever get in contact your sponsor?

Tanin · MIP Old Timer

hopefulone wrote:
Tanin,
I have attended lots meetings..for some odd reason unknown to me, I do not have the need to account to you--or anyone--except my Higher Power, who is God, of my meeting schedule. Please understand, although I can appreciate your concern and compassion on the one hand...on the other hand, I just do not feel the need to be accountable to you...whatsover.
I still respect and love you as a fellow alcoholic suffering from the same disease as I do. Basically, in a nutshell, Tanin, I am not going to allow myself to feel like I have to give my daily agenda to you. I have my God for that. Thank you.

-- Edited by hopefulone on Friday 2nd of October 2015 01:33:10 PM

Interesting points, H1. You may unduly avoiding some issues. Same as how you are avoiding your sponsor.

"Selfishness--self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our trouble."

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

Pickle, I know you mean well, or at least I think you do, but the way you represent yourself here, at times, can sometimes be aggravating and very counterproductive ... you somehow manage to get under the skin of most everyone here at some time or another ...

If you'd have phrased your questions to H1 a little differently, I'm sure you'd have gotten a much better response ... H1 is working diligently to get past a snag in her program and is making excellent progress at this time ... some people here are highly sensitive to someone who comes across as someone they need to account to ... to some, this can be felt like pressure to appease one individual ... and adding pressure to a sick person's work load can have the opposite affect of what was intended ... and it's just my observation that this sort of stuff really isn't needed or necessary ...

I know, we don't want to need to handle others with 'kid gloves' either, cause a person may not get off their butt and actually do the work ... and I think a situation like this is more up to the person and their sponsor ... and yes, I know full well that the sponsor issue here may or may not be as shaky as it appears ... I assure you that some deep issues have been discussed, 'at length', with H1 .... her desire to stay sober is intact ...

All I'm say'n Pickle, is that some of us feel like when we come here, we sometimes start get'n badgered by others that should simply mind their own business ... I don't know how else to say it ... I have been made to feel that way at times and I don't come here and want to feel like I have to defend myself or the words I chose to use ...

It is my experience here that H1 is not avoiding the issues but rather quickly get'n back to her program and trying to pin-point how to fix where she got off-track ... you may want to consider me her 'back-up' sponsor ... and no, I don't care to have a list of possible things that can go wrong in a situation like that ... I happen to know them already ...

Love ya brother and God bless,
Pappy