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Post Info TOPIC: Early sobriety and marital issues


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Early sobriety and marital issues
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Hello. I have been lurking here for awhile and have a couple of questions but will start with the most important one.

 

I am nearing the 30 day mark. Like most alcoholics, my marriage of almost 22 years has been on the rocks for a long time. I've always been a drinker to some extent but it really took off the last five or six years. The issue is she has always had problems with credit card debt. Over the last 15 years I have paid off about $100,000 worth and I checked the other day and it is at $57,000 again. It has involved opening cards in my name, having bills sent to friends houses so I wouldn't see them, etc... During this time paying the household bills and such has never been an issue. I was is therapy prior to AA and have let her know a couple of times in the last couple of months that one reason I have shut her out and been mean in the past was because of my resentment over this. I apologized and told her how much it hurt me. I have also found items suggesting she has had an ongoing affair. Needless to say I have huge trust issues.

Here is where the confusion comes in. I know my alcoholism caused some if not all of her actions. But, I have such a huge resentment over all this that it feels like it will be a mountain to climb over. I also don't trust that she will work to solve her credit issues and won't keep piling up the debt. To her, spending money is what beer was to me. We are not "best friends" who are happy to see each other at the end of the day or want to spend time together on weekends. We basically just coexist. I know there are suggestions to not do anything rash during early sobriety. I know divorce would be rough and testing. But, sometimes I think  the stress these issues give me may be a bigger threat to sobriety than a divorce.

Any guidance? I hope this is understandable. If I need to explain anything just ask. And yes I did just get a sponsor but I live in a small town and am not comfortable going to this depth yet. I have only talked to him for about five minutes total so far.

 

Signed, Not A Troll



-- Edited by Whippingpost on Thursday 7th of August 2014 06:29:19 AM

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MIP Old Timer

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Welcome to the site Whippingpost....Love the name. I realy have only one question for you. Why are you still in this marriage? I coexisted with my Ex at the end of my marriage....It just made the drinking worse. AA for myself was all about changing.....Everything but my name. I had to change the way I was living. Can't say I blame you for the trust issues. That's fricken crazy.

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Thanks Stepchild. I have justified it by:

1. For the kids. They are both teens now and after about 6 months of therapy I have finally accepted the fact that it is probably better for them if we divorced than stayed unhappy. (This was a biggie)

2. Because when I was drinking I was selfish and satisfied as long as I could drink.

3. I don't want to have to give her half the business I have spent 20 years nurturing.

4. I kept hoping she would change in her spending just like she probably kept hoping I would change my drinking. She has started to make ALOT more money in the last two years and could take care of the debt but she's not. Up until I pulled her credit two days ago I thought she was working on it and it probably totaled $20,000.

5. I didn't want to be one of those people with a "failed" marriage.

6. I didn't want to start life over in my mid forties. I am one of those people that can't imagine life alone. (of course up until a month ago I couldn't imagine life without beer either)

Signed, Not A Troll but rather an Alcoholic Nutcase

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Whippingpost wrote:

Thanks Stepchild. I have justified it by:

1. For the kids. They are both teens now and after about 6 months of therapy I have finally accepted the fact that it is probably better for them if we divorced than stayed unhappy. (This was a biggie)

That was one is answered.


2. Because when I was drinking I was selfish and satisfied as long as I could drink.

We all are...Selfishness is the root of our problem.


3. I don't want to have to give her half the business I have spent 20 years nurturing.

Get a good lawyer...You might have to suck that one up.


4. I kept hoping she would change in her spending just like she probably kept hoping I would change my drinking. She has started to make ALOT more money in the last two years and could take care of the debt but she's not. Up until I pulled her credit two days ago I thought she was working on it and it probably totaled $20,000.

This does not sound like the cement that bonds a marriage

5. I didn't want to be one of those people with a "failed" marriage.

Join the crowd...There's quite a few of us.

6. I didn't want to start life over in my mid forties. I am one of those people that can't imagine life alone. (of course up until a month ago I couldn't imagine life without beer either)

Neither did I...I was a beer drinker too. It kicked my ass and almost killed me. I drank it from morning till night...Forget about eating. Let me tell you about starting life over. Listen to your sponsor...Read the book....Take the steps....You won't be starting over.....You'll be given a new life. I know. I did it at 51.



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MIP Old Timer

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Welcome Whippingpost, ...

I know very well what it means to simply 'coexist' ... not a very fulfilling life to say the least ... personally, if you've been 'coexisting' for a while, then why not continue for a short year before making any changes ??? ... provided you're working the AA program in earnest, then try to bare with it ... 'forgiveness' is a BIG part of our program ... (not only where 'self' is concerned, but others too ...) ...

Try to let the program and your spiritual development call the shot here ... give it a chance to work ... you and your wife obviously had something going at one time that felt right ... don't make any rash decisions right now before the miracle happens in you through this program ...

A year from now, you will be in a much better position to make the best choices for your future ... As it turns out, I went through similar circumstances and my wife and I just celebrated our 41st wedding anniversary last month ... things right now could not probably be any better for our relationship ... So, I'd be very cautious in 'throwing away' a part of your life that may still hold promise ... at least at some point, lay all the cards on the table and give her a chance to 'change' as well as you are trying to do ...

Just an opinion from an old drunk that has chosen not to drink for a while ...


Love ya and God Bless,
Pappy



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MIP Old Timer

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Bare with it?....How long do you bare with someone stealling money and probaby having an affair on you Pappy?....Just curious.

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I was always told no big changes for the first year. I'm not a marriage counselor or a divorce attorney, but it sounds like the two of you could use some marriage counseling. Probably best if you could find someone who is in recovery or very well versed in it.

Or not.

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Set boundaries around behaviors you can't tolerate. Aside from that, making no major changes is good until you have more time and coping skills and are further along (ideally having worked all 12 at least one time) in the steps. I would discuss that recovery is your main focus and that you will be giving her plenty of space if she needs it, but you are recovering to have a better life and that means you don't accept unacceptable things. I might encourage humility when doing this because, has you stated, some of her looking outside the marriage for comforts (money and men) may be related (but I don't accept they were caused by) your not being available. I have seen many marriages struggle when one person who enters in recovery suddenly becomes cognizant and cares more about the negative behaviors their enablers picked up during their drinking. Touchy subject and I don't have all the answers for you. Your HP will help you work it out as long as you stay sober. Only drinking will make it worse.

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Thank you for the replies. I apologize as this was probably not the best topic for a first post. It's complicated but To some extent it just feels better to write it out.

@ Pappy, my biggest fear in waiting is that she will continue to run up the debt so that we can "split it" later. I'm visiting with a lawyer tomorrow and one question will be is there something we can sign now to agree that any future debt is the responsibility of the responsible person. She knows the debt hurts me. I really hoped she would lay the cards on the table about the debt with a plan to address it since I've expressed my feelings about it but she hasn't. As of right now she doesn't know that I know how high it is. I plan to talk to her this weekend.

@ Hello, We did therapy two years ago when I was still drinking. She had her therapist and I had mine. We did one joint session after several months of individual sessions. I started going back 6 months ago every 2 weeks. My therapist has been in Al Anon and through the program with his former wife. I have asked her to go see her therapist and she said "I don't know what I need to talk to her about". Then she said she "couldn't afford it". I pointed out the Louis Vitton purses and said that money would have covered a lot of therapy.

I guess that is what's confusing me the most. The forgiveness aspect of the program and the not doing anything drastic in the first year. Also the setting boundries confuses me. As stepchild said, how far do you let it go? I don't know and that's why I'm here for advice.

I often wonder if it wouldn't have been better if she had just left before I started cleaning up.

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pinkchip wrote:

Set boundaries around behaviors you can't tolerate. Aside from that, making no major changes is good until you have more time and coping skills and are further along (ideally having worked all 12 at least one time) in the steps. I would discuss that recovery is your main focus and that you will be giving her plenty of space if she needs it, but you are recovering to have a better life and that means you don't accept unacceptable things. I might encourage humility when doing this because, has you stated, some of her looking outside the marriage for comforts (money and men) may be related (but I don't accept they were caused by) your not being available. I have seen many marriages struggle when one person who enters in recovery suddenly becomes cognizant and cares more about the negative behaviors their enablers picked up during their drinking. Touchy subject and I don't have all the answers for you. Your HP will help you work it out as long as you stay sober. Only drinking will make it worse.


I think we were typing at the same time. I will try this approach this weekend. I am still going to see a lawyer so that I can be "prepared" just in case. Who knows. I could get served papers today for all I know. I sure haven't been able to figure out why she's still around.  

 

Thanks all!



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Whippingpost wrote:

I guess that is what's confusing me the most. The forgiveness aspect of the program and the not doing anything drastic in the first year.


I don't think there is anything in the book about not doing anything drastic in the first year. I think that is a treatment center suggestion. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not going to tell you to leave or stay...That's not my business....I will suggest....That you take care of you and your sobriety first.....Because really.....Without it....You got nothing.



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Stepchild wrote:
Whippingpost wrote:

I guess that is what's confusing me the most. The forgiveness aspect of the program and the not doing anything drastic in the first year.


I don't think there is anything in the book about not doing anything drastic in the first year. I think that is a treatment center suggestion. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not going to tell you to leave or stay...That's not my business....I will suggest....That you take care of you and your sobriety first.....Because really.....Without it....You got nothing.


 I like your post, Stepchild. Sometimes drastic stuff happens whether we like it or not. My suggestion (which I would have scoffed at before I got sober) would be to pray on it. Pray hard on it, do your step work, and the answers will become apparent. We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us? That is one of the ninth step promises.



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Since you are around the 30 day mark, I would encourage you to refrain from any immediate actions until you have at least worked closely with a good sponsor and have done a THOROUGH, and RIGOROUSLY HONEST fourth and fifth step. If you are anything like me, or every other sober alcoholic I have ever known, you will gain a tremendous amount of valuable perspective and will have a much more accurate and objective picture of the situation, and you will much more clearly see what you should and should not do.



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Good post and responses.  Interesting and useful- no doubt.  I was confronted with co-existing and my wife at the time having an affair.  This happened after entering The Program.  Very common!  What I did was- put my sobriety first, worked on me(12 steps), built a relationship with a HP(God) and put behavoirs into buckets working with a Sponsor.  Buckets- acceptable(can compromise and live with etc..) and unacceptable.  Unacceptable was things I just was not going to live with any longer.  Part of my Spiritual Awakening included self care, confidence, faith and decision making ability.  These became more apparent the more I worked on me and worked with my Sponsor.  I was then honest and direct with the unacceptable behavoirs.  It became apparant in a short time that she had no plans to change.  God revealed more!  When I became ready(60%- 40% rule)- 60% heading in one direction I took action.  I learned if I wait until I'm 100% sure, I'll never make a move.  Old behavoir for sure.  She decided she liked who she was and didn't think she had any issues to work on.  That was fine and I accepted that.  She left and it's been the best thing that's happened to me since God granted me the give of sobriety.  God revealed more throughout time that I was in fact carrying out his plan for me.  Two months after she left she wanted to come back.  I was healthy enough to say NO.   

As far as kids go.  Nobody wins if people are unhappy and everyone is walking on egg shells.  I learned we are a power of example for them.  Through our actions we teach our kids.  Showing them it's unacceptable to stay in a relationship that just isn't working.  Showing them we as individuals have choices in life.  My relationship with my kids today is wonderful and continues to grow on a daily basis.  My kids reside with me 50% of the time.  They have shown me they like their home and are very comfortable there.

What a gift!  In a nutshell- when we take care of ourself, everything else falls into place as it should.  Amen! 



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I know for myself my wife had all the signs of a open marriage but refused to change. I was willing and she ran. I stayed for the same reasons. At some point you make a decision and get out of the toxicity for your sobriety or sanity. Marriage is about partnership you just like me have no true partner. Save yourself it's ok to do this!! God will take care of her. Stop trying to rescue. In the end it will work out way better than expected. I'm speaking from experience. To much fear kept me there. Walk through the fear with faith. Good luck, Ron

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I think you are doing the right thing by trying to put a stop to the financial abuse. The other answers will come with time.



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Thank you all for your responses. I have decided to quit worrying about the small town aspect and am meeting with my sponsor tonight to lay it out to him. His initial inclination is for me to at least get through Step 5 before doing anything. The money drain is the only pressing issue I see that needs to be dealt with quickly.

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Stepchild wrote:

Bare with it?....How long do you bare with someone stealling money and probaby having an affair on you Pappy?....Just curious.


 Okay, ... I agree that he should put his priority on staying sober 'first and foremost' ... ... ... without that, he indeed has nothing ... especially no dignity or self-respect ... kinda like being dead on the inside ...

I'm told God will not put any more on you than you can bare, with His help of course ... 



-- Edited by Pythonpappy on Thursday 7th of August 2014 05:35:41 PM

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MIP Old Timer

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Whippingpost wrote:

Thank you all for your responses. I have decided to quit worrying about the small town aspect and am meeting with my sponsor tonight to lay it out to him. His initial inclination is for me to at least get through Step 5 before doing anything. The money drain is the only pressing issue I see that needs to be dealt with quickly.


 Sounds like a plan. I agree with you.



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Well - I was the wife and husband in this story all in one - plus every other addiction and issue and obsession you could have it seems lol ;)

The things is - the people in my life HAD to be as emotionally stunted as me. We couldn't end up together otherwise. So when I did the steps - and symptoms of my thinking disease started falling off me til I didn't recognize myself (my real self) - my husbands crazy became really evident really fast. Only someone with as many or even more issues as yourself will put up with you to 'do the dance of the disease'. My hubby got into recovery, and now a few years later - with both of us in 12 step groups - you wouldn't know we could have ever been so wacko. The first 6 months was crucial - did the steps - gave time it's space - patience and a HP took care of the rest. We had a zero tolerance rule - if either of us picked up our crazy again, we were walking, and that was the only loving thing to do anyway. If you truly love someone - you'll let them go... we both agreed we loved each other that much and the rest is history. Kids are happy and healthy, family life is peaceful and life isn't a roller coaster anymore :)

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Thanks for the share Tash ... ... ...


Love ya and God Bless,
Pappy



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How are you doing Whippingpost?

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I'm doing well. Thanks for asking Stepchild. My sobriety is growing daily thanks to meetings everyday.

As far as my marriage. Well, I met with an attorney Friday to get some advice. After chewing on everything from this thread and advice from close friends I have decided to start preparing for divorce. I have two businesses so it is not going to be cut and dried.

I approached her Sunday about the debt and I am going to keep an eye on that to make sure it decreases and doesn't increase. I am going to focus on my sobriety first, prepare for divorce, and unless something happens I plan to file after the first of the year. We have a 12 year old starting a new school next week so this schedule will allow him time to get settled in as well.

My feeling right now is that this marriage is too far gone on both sides to be resurrected. I have absolutely no idea why she is even still here. It just doesn't make sense at all.

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I can only speak of my divorce and my experience...But it didn't make a lot of sense to me either. I can look back on it now...And I can see it was the best thing for both of us. If I could suggest a simple prayer for you...It would be this...."Thy will, not mine, be done." I use it a lot.

I'm glad you are getting some meetings in...Stay close with the ones who are working it. Which I hope you are doing too. Don't be a stranger here. We're here for eachother.



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