My brain has been so loud lately! The disease keeps telling me that I don't have it, and that it will be different this time. It is so hard not to believe that stuff sometimes.
I'm going to meetings, I'm trying to help others, I'm praying. It just seems like there's a constant tug of war in my head sometimes. It's really tiring.
((((((RubyTues))))))
I have heard that over and over and from what I have learned sounds like that is what happens to us from time to time. I have had several times like that and I am trying to just be aware of it and "play it forward" in my head of all the crap that I have been through and how much I don't want to go back to living that way again. I delve into AA that much more....doing what all you said you are doing, talking to my sponsor, coming to this board. I never have to feel like I am alone. I just have to realize that it is temporary and I don't have to pick up a drink because I do have the disease, it ain't going to go away, and it will NOT be different. Alcohol is like the school bully and I have to stand up for myself so it won't knock me down again and do more serious injury than it has already done to me in the past.
BTY
This is the only step we have to do perfectly RT...
Most of us have been unwilling to admit we were real alcoholics. No person likes to think he is bodily and mentally different from his fellows. Therefore, it is not surprising that our drinking careers have been characterized by countless vain attempts to prove we could drink like other people. The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker. The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death.
We learned that we had to fully concede to our innermost selves that we were alcoholics. This is the first step in recovery. The delusion that we are like other people, or presently may be, has to be smashed.
pg 30
They mention in the book a few times about helping other alcoholics....Bill W. talks about it in Bill's Story.....
My wife and I abandoned ourselves with enthusiasm to the idea of helping other alcoholics to a solution of their problems. It was fortunate, for my old business associates remained skeptical for a year and a half, during which I found little work. I was not too well at the time, and was plagued by waves of self-pity and resentment. This sometimes nearly drove me back to drink, but I soon found that when all other measures failed, work with another alcoholic would save the day. Many times I have gone to my old hospital in despair. On talking to a man there, I would be amazingly lifted up and set on my feet. It is a design for living that works in rough going.
pg 15
Up the meetings a bit...Find a newcomer to help. Get a sponsee....This too shall pass RT.
Agreed "Normal Stuff"...my head is made that way and it also has recorded the input from my early sponsorship..."Don't Think...Don't Drink" and "The thinking won't get you drunk or kill you unless you act on it". The last one was fun because it was about getting over the default behavior...first the compulsion and then the drink...had to insert the program in between the compulsion and the drinking/thinking...It works when you work it. Good Post.
"It is a most wonderful blessing to be relieved of the terrible curse with which I was afflicted. My health is good and I have regained my self-respect and the respect of my colleagues. My home life is ideal and my business is as good as can be expected in these uncertain times.
I spend a great deal of time passing on what I learned to others who want and need it badly. I do it for four reasons:
1. Sense of duty.
2. It is a pleasure
3. Because in so doing I am paying my debt to the man who took time to pass it on to me.
4. Because every time I do it I take out a little more insurance for myself against a possible slip.
Unlike most of our crowd, I did not get over my craving for liquor much during the first two and one-half years of abstinence. It was almost always with me. But at no time have I been anywhere near yielding. I used to get terribly upset when I saw my friends drink and knew I could not, but I schooled myself to believe that though I once had the same privilege, I had abused it so frightfully that it was withdrawn. So it doesn't behoove me to squawk about it, for after all, nobody ever used to throw me down and pour any liquor down my throat.
If you think you are an atheist, an agnostic, a skeptic, or have any other form of intellectual pride which keeps you from accepting what is in this book, I feel sorry for you. If you still think you are strong enough to beat the game alone, that is your affair. But if you really and truly want to quit drinking liquor for good and all, and sincerely feel that you must have some help, we know that we have an answer for you. It never fails if you go about it with one half the zeal you have been in the habit of showing when getting another drink.
Ruby, I sooo much understand you what you're talking about. After year and two months trying to do the Program ( but I kept so many old ideas and so deep resentments) I was thinking that still may be I'm not alcoholic, or may be the things with me are different from others. Finally I decided that I'm not alcoholic and I just was running for alcohol. Alcohol, pills and almost dead in hospital for 3 days (which I thought would never happen to me xax). And when I woke up in hospital, tied, lost, I felt like I'm nowhere, and still was thinking that I'm not alcoholic. Xax. After 2 days I was walking on streets, crying, feeling absolutely lost, nowhere to go. My father is in A.A., too and he come to me at mornings and he was reading BB to me, like I was reading to him, when he was still drinking.
And in Jim's story I saw for first time the he was AGREED that he's an alcoholic, but after that he drunk again. But he just agreed - like I did. I was agree only because of the experience, but I didn't accept alcoholism, and that I don't have choice - alcoholic death or life, based on spirituality.
Now, sometimes I have thoughts that may be one day ... but Its for me sign that I don't have sanity and I'm praying only for spiritual experience, because its the only thing and moment that I feel really God with all my being. In those moments I can't accept fully the Steps. It is some kind of old idea that I can't let go and fears, but I found out that when I have these moments, there is something old that keeps me, and I can't let go. Its may be hidden from me for the moment - my job is to search and to live life based on spiritual plane.
Pray only for spiritual experiences. God will give you ...
And search for identification. Because I know that in all those moments when I thought I wasn't alcoholic ... I really didn't have connections with other alcoholics and I was searching for different things that are in us. Now I'm looking for identification all of the time. There is a story, about young girl who were 17 when she came in A.A. - so I read it, because there are almost no young people here and I come when I was 19.
Thank you, Ruby for your sharing, because Its still fresh in my memory. And please know that hell is still there.
Hugs.
And the sense of separation from others. I could have go to so many meetings, talking with alcoholics - but felt like I don't belong that I'm so far away from others. Its really the disease which tells me that I don't have it.
((((((RubyTues)))))) I have heard that over and over and from what I have learned sounds like that is what happens to us from time to time. I have had several times like that and I am trying to just be aware of it and "play it forward" in my head of all the crap that I have been through and how much I don't want to go back to living that way again. I delve into AA that much more....doing what all you said you are doing, talking to my sponsor, coming to this board. I never have to feel like I am alone. I just have to realize that it is temporary and I don't have to pick up a drink because I do have the disease, it ain't going to go away, and it will NOT be different. Alcohol is like the school bully and I have to stand up for myself so it won't knock me down again and do more serious injury than it has already done to me in the past. BTY
BTY, in those moments of absolute insanity, "play it forward", memories of "the old life" it doesn't work. "You are not alone" or just to feel it, it doesn't work. Realization of anything, doesn't work and the sentences that "its temporary" isn't working, too. "Just don't pick up" doesn't work, too. Well for me it didn't work. I tried change sponsors, talking to myself that my brain is lying to me, talking with others, even sponsoring a girl, trying to write, pray, go to church, go to other meetings, listening to speakers, reading all the time BB - I almost learn it, but in my head it was disaster. The more I did things, the less I felt belonging. I saw my selfishness and self-centeredness in such a forms, that I didn't think that It was possible. Pride, arrogance, self-pity and all that false smiles and masks, all that bullshits to try to convince myself that It will pass. OMG .. it is exactly this thing. That even if I'm praying, I think its my power that it'll help me in moment of absolute insanity. No memories of anything was enough strong to convince me that I'm alcoholic and in those moments i didn't even care what will happen in my life ( and I was sober - for a year and some months), no matter that I knew soo many things. I KNEW that this is the disease, but still I couldn't make connection between the things. I couldn't connect deep inside me the things. It just feels so wrong, my head is talking all the time stupid things, the more I try to do some things - helping others, praying and so on, the less I felt comfortable in my skin, with my life. And so lost and really felt that no one could understand me.
The only power that can help is God. In such moments, there is nothing to help. I must die - not to think, go, talk and so on. I must surrender and I surrender only if I die xax. No matter what's happening. Soon I was sharing with one alcoholic about this games of the disease. And he told me - This is program of freedom, its better to live life thinking you're an alcoholic living with this program, than living as an non-alcoholic, no matter drinking, or just dying from dry alcoholism - in all that pain and suffering and fears.
Hi RubyT, ... try some 'normal' drinking if you must, but I implore you to consider that I went through exactly what you're talk'n about when I first came to AA ... in '95 I first tried to quit drink'n ... my disease convinced me I didn't have a problem ... I continued 'off' and 'on' AA until I was near death this time in '08 ... many of us never get as many chances to 'change' as I did ... thank God, I FINALLY CAME TO REALIZE EXACTLY WHAT 'STEPDUDE' REPRINTED FROM THE BB ABOVE :
Most of us have been unwilling to admit we were real alcoholics. No person likes to think he is bodily and mentally different from his fellows. Therefore, it is not surprising that our drinking careers have been characterized by countless vain attempts to prove we could drink like other people. The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker. The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death.
May you seek God's guidance in your daily decision making ... God Bless ...
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
BTY, in those moments of absolute insanity, "play it forward", memories of "the old life" it doesn't work. "You are not alone" or just to feel it, it doesn't work. Realization of anything, doesn't work and the sentences that "its temporary" isn't working, too. "Just don't pick up" doesn't work, too. Well for me it didn't work.
You are correct...In the book they talk about this on page 24. It's even in italics.....Whenever Bill wanted to stress the importance of something in the book...He put it in italics.
The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink. Our so-called will power becomes practically nonexistent. We are unable, at certain times, to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink.
He goes on to say...
The almost certain consequences that follow taking even a glass of beer do not crowd into the mind to deter us. If these thoughts occur, they are hazy and readily supplanted with the old threadbare idea that this time we shall handle ourselves like other people. There is a complete failure of the kind of defense that keeps one from putting his hand on a hot stove.
pg 24
Thank God for us...There is a solution....
The great fact is just this, and nothing less: That we have had deep and effective spiritual experiences which have revolutionized our whole attitude toward life, toward our fellows and toward God's universe. The central fact of our lives today is the absolute certainty that our Creator has entered into our hearts and lives in a way which is indeed miraculous. He has commenced to accomplish those things for us which we could never do by ourselves.
Disclaimer: I posted what has worked for me in my sobriety. Only my HP and I know that best. Now I may not have been experiencing the insanity thing in others' minds; however, I know I have come very close to drinking and wanting to drink at different times in my sobriety and to me (maybe not to others) that is total insanity after being an alcoholic for 35 years and having had some very bad experiences as a result of my drinking, getting sober, and still wanting to drink.
That said, I haven't been sober for quite a year, still have so much to learn, and hopefully my HP will enlighten me if I am missing something in His time, not mine.
I just found this.....again, maybe I am wayyyyy off on what the insanity part is mentioned above. Maybe "absolute insanity" is different, worse in so many ways, than what I have experienced....
"THE INSANITY OF ALCOHOLISM"
The INSANITY of Alcoholism is NOT the goofy behavior that people exhibit when they are drunk. Everyone who ingests enough alcohol will act goofy.
The INSANITY of ALCOHOLISM is the alcoholic's persistent return to alcohol in the face of overwhelming evidence that it is destroying his or her life, over and over again.
There are some in our fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous who have serious mental problems, but most of us joke about how "insane" or "crazy" or "goofy" we are or have been, when what we really are talking about is our emotional immaturity, our impulsiveness, our lack of self-discipline our character defects if you will. Most of us would have a hard time describing many of our thoughts and actions as being insane. In fact, in some areas of life, we may exhibit a high degree of sanity.
However, there is something about the way we perceive the world around us that has always caused us a great deal of discomfort in simply living our lives.
Our general discomfort with living has much to do with the way we perceive the effects of alcohol. Our falling short of what is called "well adjusted" is definitely a part of our makeup as an alcoholic. However, that alone does not separate us much from the general population. It is our physical as well as our mental response to alcohol that is INSANE, and that is what separates the alcoholic from the non-alcoholic.
There are two problems alcoholics have with alcohol: "(1) the obsession of the mind, and (2) the compulsion of the body, an incomprehensible craving. Somewhere along the line, early or late, we develop an obsession with the idea that alcohol eases our minds and solves our problems. Then, our physical response to alcohol manifests in what the "Big Book" of Alcoholics Anonymous calls an allergy. Our alcoholic bodies process the alcohol in a manner which causes us to crave more. The alcoholic insanity of our minds tells us that it is a good idea to drink to relieve our stresses and to have fun. Once we start, our alcoholic bodies tell us we must drink more to satisfy the craving.
As every alcoholic should know, that is where the well known cycle begins, and continues over and over again, leading to death, incarceration, or "wet brain" insanity. What Dr. Silkworth called the "phenomenon of craving," manifesting as an "allergy," is so overpowering that all else comes in second to our primary concern of getting the next drink, even life itself takes second place.
That, my friends, is the "INSANITY OF ALCOHOLISM." It is only relieved and arrested by total abstinence, and as we have found, by the thorough application of the 12 Steps of AA in our lives, in all our affairs. to achieve a psychic change, a "spiritual awakening," leading to growth and maturity, and a firm grasp of the reality of life and the world about us.
As a young man (with tears in his eyes) in his first AA meeting said:
..."I'm here because I just want to live ... that's it ... I just want to live"...
It is as Simple as that!!!
Love and Peace, Barefoot"
http://www.barefootsworld.net/aainsanity.html
-- Edited by betterthanyesterday52 on Wednesday 23rd of April 2014 09:48:02 AM
You are definitely not alone in this type of thinking. I am a little over 5 months sober and the last 3 or 4 days my mind has been stuck on stinking thinking.
I get to a meeting everyday, but that is not enough. For me, it's related to the other WORK that I need to do. I have been working on step 4 for about 3 weeks and I haven't put in the time I should be.. therefore, I am not growing. I have been slacking off on my morning prayers, therefore my spiritual connection is not as strong. So for me, going to my meetings is great, but If I am not working the rest of my program, its only a matter of time before my thinking heads back into those insane thoughts about controlled drinking, even though I have proved over and over that it doesn't work.
My sponsor always tells me that even if I WANT to drink, i'll never NEED to again... unless I have that first one. This phase is temporary, and has gotten me back on the path I need to be on. Its certainly no fun when its happening though, and I agree, its exhausting!
d_wiling....How cool is that?....That you recognize that. Keep moving on that fourth step....Too many don't. I did a lot of praying for willingness on mine.
BTY...The insanity is picking up the first drink....Or mixing your whiskey with milk....Like Jim in the Big Book.
"Suddenly the thought crossed my mind that if I were to put an ounce of whiskey in my milk it couldn't hurt me on a full stomach. I ordered a whiskey and poured it into the milk. I vaguely sensed I was not being any too smart, but felt reassured as I was taking the whiskey on a full stomach.
The experiment went so well that I ordered another whiskey and poured it into more milk. That didn't seem to bother me so I tried another." Thus started one more journey to the asylum for Jim. Here was the threat of commitment, the loss of family and position, to say nothing of that intense mental and physical suffering which drinking always caused him. He had much knowledge about himself as an alcoholic. Yet all reasons for not drinking were easily pushed aside in favor of the foolish idea that he could take whiskey if only he mixed it with milk! Whatever the precise definition of the word may be, we call this plain insanity. How can such a lack of proportion, of the ability to think straight, be called anything else?
pgs 36-37
A lack of proportion, of the ability to think straight....I like that. Kind of like Doctor Silkworth's opinion...
The sensation is so elusive that, while they admit it is injurious, they cannot after a time differentiate the true from the false.
Exactly, Stepchild. The insanity is just what happened to Jim. And I love that, too: "I remember I felt irritated that I have to be a salesman for a concern I once owned." - Here its told a lot and it is the root of our troubles. "Driven by a hundred forms of fear, self-delusion, self-seeking, and self-pity ..."
BTY I didn't mean to affect you and I'm not judging or blaming and I am definitely not telling that you are not insane or less insane. Just was sharing my experience, too. Peace.
the good thing about it is I didn't get at all upset...
I was just thinking that if I was a newcomer who hadn't been to AA and was looking for info and found out that I had to believe in God or be spiritual at all for that matter how I would react. Like I have shared...I had no faith or very little of it when I first came into AA. I know it would have scared me away to find out that it was essential and I would have tried to continue to get and stay sober on my own.
So moh....just mho.
Ruby - you know... I think you are awesome. I've heard it said a million times that if you say it out loud, the power it has over you is diminished. You've certainly taken up your shield and sword just by saying out loud what you're thinking is.
I liked this thread. Lots of growth from everyone - especially stepchild, not to say there isn't a ton of growth here from everyone... there is and it's obvious to an onlooker who follows the 'journey'.
What it tells me is that they were right, one persons struggle may be the exact thing another person needed for growth... and I sometimes think of my toils and troubles that way - that maybe I'm not even going through them for me per say, but for some one else. Who knows? In the grand scheme of things - I wouldn't put it past the Highest power to have it orchestrated in this way for the ultimate chance at deep humility and closeness to the light of the spirit.
I for one Ruby, have enjoyed the journey here with you so far immensely. It is the people I feel comfortable being next to in silence... or the silent presence itself that feels so powerful in my recovery. For every one who had to fall away or even perish - to pave way for you to be here... I am grateful. I dislike this disease and it's ruthless ability to kill kind innocent people - but I do understand, that for every one who falls, my chances of survival go up. It is only 2% that make it. When Dean or John (can't remember which) originally said this to me, I bawled my eyes out. Part of me was so grateful to be alive and part of me was so sad - I was just overwhelmed... but I was all the more determined to be in that 2% - and I know you have that determination too Ruby, and the bottom line is, you are loveable and acceptable exactly as you are no matter what happens, has happened, or will happen. You are worth recovery, life, peace and joy - If you don't believe that, then I hope you figure out why and let HP heal that in you with love.
BTY, alcoholics are insane, but not stupid. And there Is HP. HP will take care of it - those who are really looking will find the way out. And what must happen, it will happen not because of me, but despite (I don't know the word - that shows dictionary I hope it can be understand) me.
-- Edited by myownhell on Wednesday 23rd of April 2014 03:13:14 PM
I truly appreciate each and every reply on this thread and am going to read it again and again. Like so many things in our program, it so so helps to just say it and to know that others feel the same. Much love to you all.
today marks 9 years for me without a drink. today I am recovered from the hopeless state of mind and body. for some reason, today I have thought about where I came from. I remember the fight it took to get over the mental obsession. the dam nagging thoughts that started with "maybe" almost drove me insaner! but the great thing was I didn't completely fry my memory and I knew drinking was not gonna help anything. so I prayed like crazy, kept working on the steps, and went to meetings.
just as promised, that mental obsession left. I ceased fighting alcohol and sanity returned. actually I don't think I ever had sanity, but what I felt was pretty nice! it took T.I.M.E.(Things I Must Earn).
It sounds like you are feeling better, RubyTues, and that makes my heart smile!
I would like to think that we all have the opportunities to increase that percentage by continuing to let other alcoholics know that we love and care about them (as we do on this board and off of it) and that they are not alone. I have heard of too many people getting dropped as friends when they go out. I hope that I will continue to check up periodically on the one(s) who start drinking, if only to leave them a brief message knowing I am thinking about them and care about them. I don't think I will ever feel good knowing that I am included in that dismal a success rate when there are 98% of people who do drink again and many of them will die because of it. A man said the other night that a newcomer who was struggling had called him. He had tried so many numbers which were given to him, left messages for them, and he was the only person out of many who he was able to reach for hours. We pass around a calendar at our meetings asking people to find speakers, with very few results, although we have lots of people who attend these meetings. Also at meetings, we have the same people making coffee and doing service work. I hope I will always ask myself if there is anything else I can do to make a difference and not get too comfortable with just attending meetings or slack off of meetings because I feel I am doing just fine without as many. It isn't just about me anymore, it is about others and may I always remember that because I feel God wants me to remember it. Even if I only help one person, it may be one more person whose life is savedand as long as I feel that I actually have the opportunity to save someone from dying, it gives me more reason to stay sober and want to live myself.
Congratulations, Tom!!! I loved that T.I.M.E. acronym!
