South Park - Bloody Mary

Draco XIV · Newbie

South Park - Bloody Mary

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Hello Draco, and welcome to the board. Very interesting first post. First, this message board is not affiliated with AA. People just come to talk about recovery and ask questions about alcoholism and getting sober, generally. Like AA, we only have one requirement and that's "a desire to stop drinking". As stated in AA traditions 10,11, in 12:

we have no opinion on outside issues, try and stay away from press, radio, and films (and tv), and we try to place principles before personalities. So the cartoon's opinions aren't of any real consequence. AA has been ridiculed much worse than that by people with different motives. Questions about how AA differes with the opinions expressed by the cartoon should be taken up with AA world services in NY. Google is your friend.

So are you trying to quit drinking Draco? You qualified your self as an alcoholic, said that you'd been to AA meetings and didn't like them, and that you were les miserable when drinking. Sounds like you've made your decision, let us know if you change your mind.

10. Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the A.A.
name ought never be drawn into public controversy.
11. Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we
need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, and
films.
12. Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our Traditions, ever reminding us
to place principles before personalities.

-- Edited by StPeteDean on Thursday 12th of August 2010 09:57:09 AM

Reffner · Senior Member

Dean hit it right on the head about our 10th tradition. I've seen the episode, and frankly found it humorous. I'm a South Park fan too, but NEVER try and take the show seriously. I mean, it;s all about getting a good laugh or a little entertainment, isn't it? I've had people around me talk trash about AA and alcoholism in general, and today I certainly don't take it seriously. If anything, I feel a little sad that they feel the way they do. A very big part of this program for me is keeping an open mind, and realizing that I am often wrong. I gotta remember, I may be able to learn something from other peoples opinions and beliefs. For me, it's all about acceptance of persons, places, and things I can not change.

Brian

Toad · Senior Member

Hi XIV,
I have experience with " I feel like I have hit a brick wall. I FEEL a huge void in me. "
I tried a lot of evil ways to fill that void . Booze and dope worked for a long time.
The day came when a thing happened that I could not deal with. I call it a sufficient bottom.
Some how, some way my arguments were vague at that point. I needed out.
The hand of AA was there. "Desperation only the dying understand."
Crude but functional.
Toad

SoberSteve · MIP Old Timer

I tried going to the xepisodes site and got a virus warning from norton..just a heads up

cooncatbob · Senior Member

South Park makes fun and offends everyone, so why should AA be any different.
I've seen the episode in question and found it simplistic and offensive, it was funny too.
At the end Stan says you just need to not drink so much, this is the way most non alcoholics view us.
If we alcoholics could control our drinking we wouldn't be alcoholics.
The whole premise of AA is 1 alcoholic helping another alcoholic, because only another alcoholic understands.
It's always been that way, this is why the most successful counselor are themselves in recovery.
Bob.

FlyingSquirrel · Senior Member

It was humorous and furthers some stereotypes, misconceptions and common criticism of AA. Beyond that, I didn't notice anything important - though I noticed that the ending was quite perceptive, showing Stan's dad trying to push the envelope of how many drinks were acceptable and whether certain things should "count" as a drink - typical obsessive / compulsive alcoholic thinking in other words, leaving it open to interpretation as to whether he was really an alcoholic or not. Typical South Park ending, also.

-- Edited by FlyingSquirrel on Thursday 12th of August 2010 03:59:11 PM

Jerry F · MIP Old Timer

"I feel like I've hit a brick wall. I feel a huge void inside me. I've buned all my bridges and ruined almost all of my relationships, and I've never had a serious relationship with a woman, even when I was sober..."

That statement also is what I relate to as Toad does....Hmmm I actually have
a bunch of new warts coming out.

That description is the history of my condition when I finally yelled "Uncle" and
then quit everything I was thinking and doing to myself with the first honest
understanding I ever had in recovery.   "I didn't know what the hell was happen-
ing to, with, and because of me and I didn't know that I didn't know." I was as
dumb as a stick and ready for the mulch pile. "If what you're doing isn't work-
ing...stop doing it" was one of the first rocket science suggestions I've heard in
recovery. You can have that permission for free. If you don't want it for now
just back up a couple more feet, lower your head one more time and run at the
wall again with as much energy as you can muster and see if that results with
you wanting to be here or in a for real AA meeting or reaching for another
bottle of anesthesia what ever brand you feel comfortable with.

No I'm not being comforting. The reason is because this is a life threating
fatal disease...chances are if you are not feeling insane enough the search
for more insanity can and has lead to death for many others who are not here
with us now.

I know your statement above intimately. When I read it my stomach crunches
and I revisit the emotion of terror and panic. I find no humiliation in saying
as often as I need to "UNCLE" to the disease of alcoholism.   "UNCLE" there I'm
done and I hope you keep coming back leaving the "wall" alone. Walk around
it, find the door to the nearest AA meeting in your area and try 90 meetings in
90 days like lots of sober MIP fellows and gals have.

In support.   smile

Larry_H · MIP Old Timer

Draco XIV wrote:

"Hi, I'm a miserable alcoholic. But I'm even more miserable sober."

I say you should continue drinking until you are more miserable as an alcoholic and less miserable sober. If you are one of us that change will happen provided you don't die or get locked up first.

When you reach that point give AA another try. It has been time tested to work best for most.

I wish the best to you

Larry,
---------------
If you think that you are an alcoholic, chances are you are.

FlyingSquirrel · Senior Member

Larry_H wrote:

Draco XIV wrote:

"Hi, I'm a miserable alcoholic. But I'm even more miserable sober."

I say you should continue drinking until you are more miserable as an alcoholic and less miserable sober. If you are one of us that change will happen provided you don't die or get locked up first.

When you reach that point give AA another try. It has been time tested to work best for most.

I don't necessarily agree -- I can totally relate to being even more miserable when newly sober, because the solution to all my problems had been taken away. The key for me was hope. I realized that there was a solution that had worked for a lot of people, which could possibly work for me. But that solution is not all roses and butterfly wings. You'll have to be willing to do some things that are uncomfortable. Nothing worth doing is ever easy - and this is one of the hardest things anyone can do, but is also one of the most worthwhile. The other key for me was commitment. I made a commitment to myself. If you're willing to do the same, your current misery will eventually go away (you'll still have life problems, of course, but they won't affect you the way they do now.)

If you have the option, check out some AA meetings in your area that you haven't tried till you find one that fits. If you don't, keep bringing your body back to the ones you don't like till your mind follows. That's my suggestion, but you're free to take Larry's instead (and for many people, that's what it takes) - just know that you don't necessarily HAVE to let yourself be beaten into submission by alcohol first, you can choose your own bottom. The elevator only goes down, but you can get off at whichever floor you'd like.

-- Edited by FlyingSquirrel on Thursday 12th of August 2010 05:35:47 PM

jonijoni1 · MIP Old Timer

Miserable or not,
I hope you do try sobriety, real recovery and not just being "dry". It is really worth it. I never thought I COULD feel "good"; that I was perpetually cursed as a savvy pessimist and a f***-up of a person. I was the maudlin depressed artist, the lonely only child, the pretty girl hiding behind a haze of smoke and booze and not letting anyone in, lest I trample them to death quite without meaning to. Doomed. History would forever repeat itself until a cold death came and took all the pain away- mine and everyone else's, in the process.

But what a total shock. A slow shock, but a real shock. I am sober and really content. For the moment, I can idenitify with and remember the word "miserable", but it is well beyond even the grasp of my recapturing it and "owning" the concept of real misery. Sad sometimes? Sure, sometimes. But unmanageable imprisonment by feelings of loneliness and despair? This stuff left with my last hangover.

Welcome to the forum here. Most of us are probably not offended by that SP episode because we share a depth of understanding with eachother and an acceptance of the rest of the world and "human nature" that we don't- really don't- take stuff like outside opinions of our program to heart. It is awfully hard to feel offended when someone simply doesn't understand something that has not only saved your life, but increased it's joy a thousandfold. If they haven't walked a mile with us, how could they possibly know anyway? Not gonna beat up on someone for their naivety. That's all it is.

Give it a try. Don't wait til you feel worse. The Steps are there for anyone who has had enough. Anyone.

joni

Dave Harm · Senior Member

I've never watched South Park so I can't comment on the show, but have run into numerous people who gave me suggestions on how to control my drinking. And like others have said, if it was a matter of control... none of us would be alcoholics.

louisa · Senior Member

Draco wrote

but some of you who track down this episode WILL be offended...in many ways.

You don't know that!!!!! And.......... I seriously doubt it! biggrin

Sending you very best wishes whichever path you choose to take,
Louisa
xx

FlyingSquirrel · Senior Member

louisa wrote:

Draco wrote

but some of you who track down this episode WILL be offended...in many ways.

You don't know that!!!!! And.......... I seriously doubt it!

Sending you very best wishes whichever path you choose to take,
Louisa
xx

In order to be really offended at something, it kind of has to touch a nerve. Or I have to be feeling really insecure and defensive about it. Neither was the case here, so instead I just found it funny (in the usual, grotesque South Park way).

Aquaman · MIP Old Timer

I'll try to find the episode but I'm confident that I won't be offended. After all, Matt & Trey have said MANY times that NOTHING is off-limits to them.
If they make anything off-limits, it will in-validate the body of their work as hate-speech, rather than finely-sharpened satirical comedy.
Matt & Trey are equal-opportunity jesters therefore they don't offend me. They entertain me.

You, however, do not entertain me. You inspire me.
You remind me how many more of us are out there suffering. The "miserable" alcoholics and their families who may never get the help they need.
Those who never seek us out, the way you have.

You have already admitted that you are an alcoholic. Wanna get better?

Peace,
Rob

P.S. - Just watched Bloody Mary on Netflix Instant and it was funny...not hilarious...but funny. "You...rack...uh-DIS-uh-PRINN!"
I wasn't offended. It's clear that Matt & Trey are familiar enough with The Program to read between the lines. I, too, have compared AA to a cult. I, too, have asked myself "why can't I just use discipline to quit or cut down?"
The last question I answered first; because I HAD tried quitting and/or cutting down on my own and it didn't work.
The Spiritual aspect of AA was something I adressed shortly after that and my answer to myself was simple; why not? If faith and trust in a higher power has provided hope, solace, inspiration and love to BILLIONS and BILLIONS of human beings for THOUSANDS of years...what the hell makes me think I'm too "smart" for faith in God?

The program works and alcoholism is a disease. Maybe not as miracle-worthy as cancer (the pope bit was very funny) but a disease none the less.

-- Edited by Aquaman on Saturday 14th of August 2010 10:48:18 AM

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

Draco...yeah....I have seen that episode...and even in sobriety and AA, I thought it was funny. People do talk about "the disease" and alcohol being their "disease" some in AA...BUT, this is not always the case...and those who shrug off all the bad things they have done and also constantly relapsing on "having a disease" are not getting the message at all. Much of AA is about being accountable, making ammends, and taking responsibility where we did not before. We don't cop out and just say "it was the disease." Nobody would actually quit drinking if that was the case. Also, the main theme running throughout AA is change. If you do not have an open mind to it, it wont really work. Over time, most of us generally turn towards trying to help others...Rather than sit around and bemoan having "a disease" we do try to be active in helping those newer than us. When drinking, and in earlier sobriety, I didn't see the world very accurately...I did see people and AA in general as hokey and a bunch of zealots. It was not accurate and, honestly...you can call it diseased thinking or not, but I now know I thought that was because I was not ready to stop drinking and it was a protective measure when I rationalized how and why AA was not for me. AA works for all different kinds of people, in all different kinds of countries, with all different kinds of personalities... When I hear someone say "AA is not for me" but admit they have a drinking problem...all I hear is a person that wants to hold on to their drinking problem. I feel bad for them because, truly, AA is for everyone that wants to stop drinking. I hope you give it another try. Being shy or a private person is not counter to AA...Furthermore, since the main ingredient is change, you might find yourself less shy as you go along. Good luck to you.

Mark

Lexie · Senior Member

I had to laugh recently when someone said (in another forum) that AA "wasn't for" him or her, because he/she had a "fiercely independent personality".

I've never met so many "fiercely independent personalities" in my life as I have in AA. It's part of the reason we gotta be reminded to put principles first!

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Lexie wrote:

I had to laugh recently when someone said (in another forum) that AA "wasn't for" him or her, because he/she had a "fiercely independent personality".

I've never met so many "fiercely independent personalities" in my life as I have in AA. It's part of the reason we gotta be reminded to put principles first!

John Bradsaw wrote: "An alcoholic is a man, who is on fire, that runs into the sea, and drowns."

There is no one more "fiercely independent" than a drowning man. lol

As for Draco, he hasn't been back since he posted this, imo trollish post, two days ago. I don't think that he got the reaction that he was looking for.

-- Edited by StPeteDean on Saturday 14th of August 2010 12:27:28 PM

Lexie · Senior Member

Yeah,

I think he expected us to circle the wagons and scream, "outrage!"

Whatever. I think by now most of us have heard all the criticisms, valid and invalid, of AA that have been invented.

Those who are seriously misinformed but not close-minded can be politely corrected about any misconceptions. Those just looking to stir up rancor are best politely ignored. And those who make good points give me something to think about.

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

Lexie hit the nail on the head. Doesn't it seem ironic that we can call ourselves "Fiercely independent" yet be fiercely DEPENDENT on alcohol? Strange.

skitzobill · Newbie

for more AA humor come see me perform stand up comedy.